alien deleted scenethat changed the xeno story

To me that scene is canon. I enjoyed the other movies too, but the deleted transformation scene completed the horror of the Alien, and I always loved the idea that organisms could be mutated into spores. Slowly and painfully, of course. I believe that was Humans' first purpose, mechanized spore production. Then the Engineers got to thinking: what other purpose might humans be put to?

I believe the scene still counts in canon but until ridley disporves it, think that aliens survive by cocooning if they have to, but a queen is the main means of the reproducution and survival of the species. Yeah i am pretty sure in my mind that theengineers didnt make a queen or anything, thats just how the xeno species evolved

To all There's that ugly monster called canon and it raises its ugly head again. Is the directors cut of alien considered canon ?

To all A1 = aliens theatrical cut A1DC = aliens director's cut Etc So I believe that p1 + p2 + p3 + a1DC is canon to each other as Ripley is revisiting old ideas never explored . And that. A1 + a2 + a3 + a4 os canon to each other . So the deleted scenes is only canon to prometheus. That's what I believe ridley intended. But if both lifecycles exist together that would be fine too !!!!

the director cut of alien isnt canon. its the only one that is completely true to the alien universe. to me the idea that the xeno infects its victims turning them into eggs, makes the xeno way more sinister than a queen simply laying eggs . the queen makes the xeno look like an animal/species. understandably the queen isnt that unbelievable and possibly the xeno could develop a queen as another method of reproducing. Perhaps when the xeno infects its victims , its just a method it uses when there is no queen.

Thanks pulse !!

indeed, while the queen was a clever ROLLER COASTER or FUN RIDE concept, the Giger/Alien motif wasn't about NESTism at all. It was all about Rogue Alpha Male seeking out the female or pregnable prey; i.e. soft wet warm humans and doing the transformative do on them. For me, this cocooning or man becoming host to their egg-hand thing was a much more nightmarish and post-blowjob a result in a valid Gigerworld than having some 'bitch' lay down some 'slugs'. And the facehugger itself didn't need to be such, as Giger did several versions of it, showing that it 'probably' set its form once the laserlike tripwire was tripped. Readying itself to lock onto whatever came into its range, from any planet.

im just saying it is a possibility, not a sure thing. The queen just doesnt work that well for me. I like the tranformation thing, it does add so much to the horror and it also adds more possibilities, on thoes ground a have to say im not a fan of the queen idea. Im with you CUSTODIAN....a' bitch laying slugs' doesnt work for me either

Pulse Custodian As much as I like the queen concept (and aliens was originally my favourite movie ) I now like the egg morphing concept much more . Alien warrior and egg morphing . YESSS !!!!!

IMHO, having multiple reproduction modes only adds to the Alien's "structural perfection" as described by Ash. However, since Cameron was working from a release that didn't include humans turning into eggs, he added a slight contradiction: when discussing the eggs that are found in the atmosphere processor basement, Ripley asks "So who's laying these eggs?" This would contradict her knowledge that humans can be transformed into eggs. Therefore, strictly speaking, even [i]Aliens[/i] is not canon.

Personally, after seeing Aliens (and giving it several second-chances) I am just not the biggest fan. I read that Giger was not even consulted by Cameron and Co. and I was infuriated. It was obvious to me that Cameron was just trying to go bigger-Alien, okay we will call it Aliens and have 10,000 of them running around and stupid, cliche' Mercs overacting. Don't get me wrong, the story was there, it just didn't feel like the original. Alien was so Dark and Sinister and the sequel was just another action movie/ creature flick. The Queen was another example of how, in Cameron's mind, bigger is better; and it didn't work for me. As stated above, the singularity of The Xeno and it's ability to reproduce in any circumstances were truly terrifying. Canon? Don't know, don't care. In my world, only Prometheus and Alien are worth a damn.

Fleshvessel Amen to that . I think p1 and a1/a1DC are canon to each orher. Nowhere in a2 do we see a xenomorph with translucent skin BUT milburn remarks in p1 that the hamerpede has translucent skin(please help me confirm this) .there are storyboards that indicate that the xenomorp was morphing to its final stage but the most popular belief is that it was dying. In aliens the xenomorphs were stil alive many days after they they reached adulthood . Why ? So for me alien and prometheus goes together . But that's just my personal belief. Both lifecycles can co exist but prefer the egmorphing. ZZplural If aliens isn't canon that would be fine with me because the exploration of the space jockey was the next logical step. Finally in my opinion we could have the following universes : 1 P1 p2 p3 a1DC 2 A1 a2 a3 a4 You could possibly add avp1 and avp2 to the latter. This is my take on the canon issue.

Agreed A1 and Prometheus are pretty much all I need. Except of course for Ridleys Prometheus 2! I liked Aliens when it came out because it was big and fun and relentless. Back then there weren't too many movies like it. But I've been saturated to the eyebrows with mayhem in the last few decades and my tastes have changed to the extent I don't really need to see any of the subsequent Alien films again. The Queen was cool but for me, the spore transformation was much cooler, darker and more hideous. More Alien. Would be cool to see that concept expanded upon somehow in Prometheus 2.

In an interview(there is a thead on this site about alines colonial marines that says scott was interviewed and said this) he only considers alien and aliens canon(prometheus was an obivous part of canon so he didn't mention it.)

I must say that i loved james camerons aliens, it was a great action movie. I must admit the colonial marines were awesome ,, great charactors the dropship rocked. The thing that i didnt like about it, ( apart from the queen) the xeno were so easily killed. it kinda took alot away from the film i think.

I just watched the scene in question - Brett is merely cocooned and although the cocooning resembles the eggs, I don't think he's turning into an egg; he's just cocooned.

Greatest_Ape That's an interersting point. Might it be that the cocooned person becomes a xenomorph directly ???

[i]"I don't think he's turning into an egg; he's just cocooned"[/i] We debated this some time ago, and various screen shots were posted on the forum. There isn't a shadow of a doubt: Dallas & Brett were turning into eggs.

Zzplural Oh thanks So then some clarity on that .

Whether Ridley Scott likes it or not all the Alien movies are canon to each other, and because Prometheus is set in the same universe, it too is canon (we wont get into AVP this time, even tho the first movie made reference to both Weyland Industries and Weyland Corporation). Yes Ridley may have made the first movie but that is all. But regards this age old argument of Egg Morphing vs Queen reproduction method (of which a search would have brought up many, many results), and as I myself have argued many times. They are both canon and interchangeable... In other words - Brett [b]WAS[/b] being turned into an egg in the deleted scene. But why couldn't he have been turning into an egg incubating a Royal Facehugger (Alien 3 Assembly Cut), which would have used Dallas as a host to a Queen. If Ripley had been subdued and not blown the Nostromo to kingdom come it would have returned home a space faring hive, with a Queen and a multitude of eggs. P.S. Directors/Extended Cuts are more canon than the theatrical release as they where as James Cameron put it regards Aliens "The ride you were intended to take".

[i]Whether Ridley Scott likes it or not all the Alien movies are canon to each other, and because Prometheus is set in the same universe, it too is canon (we wont get into AVP this time, even tho the first movie made reference to both Weyland Industries and Weyland Corporation). Yes Ridley may have made the first movie but that is all.[/i] Behave yourself. Anyway, I would say that Brett was turning into an egg. I've always liked the idea that a lone Alien could do something like that when theres no Queen to produce eggs. Then again, the idea of no Queen existing at all is very interesting. It changes the Alien from being an animal/hive like creature to something alot more sinister in nature.

if anyone accepts the theory of an victim being transformed into an egg, contemplate the eggs on the derelict on LV426. That kinda blows my mind concidering what could of happend. Maybe the derelict was a sign of the engineers intention to earth?

If you are speaking of the theory that the eggs in the derelict Juggernauts cargo hold were once the Engineer crew, there is a glaringly obvious problem with that idea... If you watch Alien you will see that the Alien eggs are grouped together in the "troughs" of the chamber. Now imagine that area filled with Engineers in hypersleep pods as in Prometheus. Basically you would fit less sleeping engineers per trough than you would eggs. Of course one could argue that the crew of Engineers may have been elsewhere on the ship before being taken to the chamber and egg morphed. A possibility, until you look at the numbers. The crew of the Juggernaut would have had to have been in the thousands, possibly millions, to be egg-morphed into the vast number of eggs that Kane saw in the chamber, and the derelict Juggernaut just simply wasn't big enough. The Queen is a good idea, O'Bannon liked it, Giger likes it and Ridley Scott likes it. It allows the Alien to produce hundreds, if not thousands of eggs in a relatively short period time, and if accept the egg morphing method in addition to the queen idea, as mentioned in my last post (Brett - Egg - Royal Facehugger + Dallas = Queen - lots of eggs) then you have a truly perfect organism and a deadly and versatile killing machine.

My thought were that the derelict was a transport ship, and the eggs were simply cargo. I wasn't suggesting that the eggs were engineers, i was suggesting that the eggs are victims from a seeded planet, perhaps like earth. Perhaps one of the facehuggers escaped during transit and killed the 'pilot' and the derelict crashed landed on lv426. Kane said he saw thousands of eggs ( thousands of victims), i think the derelict was on its way to process its cargo . the derelict was one of many ships, probably most made to there destination

There is the possibility that the Eggs on the Derelict were engineered and not laid. Pulserilfes idea of victims from planets being harvested for eggs is a good one and would make for interesting viewing.

This point has been speculated to death by all of us, I even reversed my opinion regarding egg morphing, which I at first didn't buy, but after much discussion I now accept as part of the cannon xeno life-cycle. But we can't just disregard James Cameron and his contribution to the Alien franchise. He wrote the Aliens script and envisioned the concept of the queen. He admits on the commentary to the extended release that he didn't include HR Giger much because he wanted creative control and he had head that Giger would overload him with ideas that would conflict with where he wanted to go. But Fox did give him the rights to both write and direct Aliens so we have to respect his creative decisions, and lets face it, while he is NOT Ridley Scott - who clearly is in a class by himself, Cameron is super talented and did produce a compelling edge of your seat suspense movie. I agree that Aliens as a movie was less horror and more terror, but it is a good story line in its extended format. So to be fair to all we now must give credit to both Scott and Cameron and say that the xenomorph can go 2 directions depending upon available resources,.i.e egg morphing if solo or later on through the birth of a queen, a whole insect like nest. The alien intelligence seems to be a highly adaptive instinct genius like survivalist intelligence. This was evident when it just instinctively showed up in the escape pod - how did it know and it certainly didn't seem like a coincidence! They may have senses we know nothing about or cognitive abilities related to survival that result in the correct choice as if my conscious choice but actually through a mechanism we don't understand. In Aliens, Cameron extended this ability to being able to disrupt the electrical systems. Henderson was baffled and said 'How can they disrupt the systems, they're animals!!!' But the fact is, they did again through their hyper-developed instinctual and intuitive Alien intelligence nothing like ours. It gives them that creepy extrasensory perception through an unknown mechanism which makes them all that more formidable and frightening. I hope we can close this thread as this subject has been beat to death by now! Staff?

Before the thread is closed, I'd like to throw in my opinion that Cameron [i]was[/i] super talented. I reckon he peaked around the time of [i]Terminator 2[/i] and [i]Aliens[/i]. More recently, I can hardly bring myself to view his offerings.

@zzplural I totally agree with you. cameron's later movies are still pretty good, but he has lost something since then (aliens and terminator @nostromo1 I like what cameron add to the alien franchise particularly the movements of the aliens eg jumping from wall to wall, climbing down vertical structures which were all fantastic, except the queen. I would still rate aliens as one of my all time favourites, but i prefer a aliens universe without a queen. I think the transformation method would produce more xenos . Once a xeno had been born the victims body is tranformed into an egg...way more efficient method too

The morphing scene is very disturbing! and very 'alien' to our way of understanding how life and reproduction is meant to be. Brett does indeed look like he's being morphed into an egg and in my opinion Dallas is also being morphed into an egg, he just isn't as far gone as Brett because he was taken after Brett. Also, everyone's assuming that they're mutating into facehuggers. They might be changing into something else completely. Like a catapillar into a butterfly or a maggot into a bluebottle.

Im pretty sure that a single lone Alien not in possession of any eggs could indeed transform into a Queen if the right circumstances came to be