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King
MemberOvomorphJan-01-2013 5:33 AMWell spotted! this means that it lies somewhere here on the red line
[img]http://nismo87.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/milky_way.jpg[/img]
[img width=351 height=150]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ML_kFkjpdzE/SK6uPUT8iKI/AAAAAAAAGm4/tzk1lye2eZE/s400/vlcsnap-94269.jpg[/img] "Frostmourne Hungers"
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HyperNova
MemberOvomorphJan-01-2013 5:44 AMYes! Good graphic! So all the ENGINEERS have to do is either follow the Sagittarius Arm curvature until they reach us or cut diagonally straight across the Galaxy to us.
This part of David and Watts/(Shaw) conversing takes place just prior to when the ENGINEER has woken up. In the PROMETHEUS we know David goes off on his own and plays around with the controls in the Juggernaught where as in this draft Shaw goes to find David to see what he is up to and comes across him attempting to power-up the Juggernaught for flight. Implying that perhaps a fore-knowledge of say LV-426 could possibly already be known and he, for whatever adgenda, is making preperations to go there!
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Indy John
MemberOvomorphJan-02-2013 4:51 AMYea Shaw definatly wants to go to the Engineer's home(or close to it).
Could David fool her long enough to accomplish his agenda which might be different?
Somevbody suggested that poster are making the storyline way to complicated for us mortals to ahndle.
Still I sort of wonder what the relationship between Shaw/David will be once he is fully funtional.
If I was Shaw and reconnecting David in some way. I might not attach all of hardware.
Shaw might need David skills in the functional/technical areans of their adventure together, especially if meeting Engineers/Creators perhaps even xenos while piloting a Juggernaut to unknown worlds.
But if there is need for Shaw to pull the plug on David to accomplish Shaw's needs(against David's plans) I would make sure there is away of disconnecting his battery, so to speak.
Be choicelessly aware as you move through life
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Indy John
MemberOvomorphJan-01-2013 9:28 PM"..making preperations to go there.."
Who is to say that David(now that his head is attached to his body) is now going to LV-426? How would Shaw know where their HiJacked Juggernaut is Destined?
In fact(I don't recall all of the pre-flight details if Shaw would know about LV-426) if they do make it there how would she not know it was the the place the Engineers came from?
David could weave any story about the planet and the discovery of the SJ/Juggernaut.
Be choicelessly aware as you move through life
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Anunnaki50
MemberOvomorphJan-02-2013 1:33 AMIn the movie David seems to definately have an agenda for whatever purpose that Weyland was making him do. I dont know if they would go to LV-426 because Ridley might not want to go that direction. Its been done before so I think its still going to continue their journey towards Paradise.
The Anunnaki were on the earth in those days--and also afterward--when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, mighty men of high reno
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HyperNova
MemberOvomorphJan-02-2013 6:47 AMYes, it's more than likely that they are looking for the cordinates of the Engineers homeworld to go to. But there is the Weyland files upon the Blue Ray DVD impying that "a signal" of sorts was detected in and around the Zeta II Retuculi system and that is the general area that the PROMETHEUS mission went and I would say perhaps a planet or two short of the actual planet making the broadcast via the infamous Alien Engineer Derilict. According to the drafts in the script they enter the Zeta II system and discover:
"Seven planets. Two hot rocks, two gas
giants, three snowballs. Nothing
Earthlike."
Two gas giants! They could have intercepted the first Gas Giant referencing LV-223 and yet the next Gas Giant along you can logically infer is the very same that has the three moons orbiting around it that is none other than the infamous LV-426. The wider quote from the early script draft are as follows:
" INT. MAGELLAN - BRIDGE
Outside the window, the planets orbiting Zeta 2 Reticuli are
no more than bright stars.
JANEK
Overlay.
A heads-up display appears, overlaid on the glass. The sun is
labeled ZETA 2 RETICULI. Markers point out the planets and
trace the ellipses of their orbits.
Like magic, the planets swell into colorful orbs, each
labeled: Alpha, Beta, Gamma...
DOWNS
Seven planets. Two hot rocks, two gas
giants, three snowballs. Nothing
Earthlike.
Watts grins at Holloway, eyes shining."
_________________________________________________________________________________
They even talk of the moon they visit in the script as LV-426 but revisions decided that they should not be so obvious to go to that moon designation too soon within the narrative construct of the franchise but instead to drag out the mystery a bit more in preceeding franchise narratives loosely based around the same general theme yet merely expanded upon much in the same way Star Wars: Episode IV: A New Hope was expanded upon to eventualy evolve into becoming a little known sequel at the time called Star Wars: Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back.
I shall post some more quotes upon here shortly as there is key, revealing segments within the early drafts that point at definate key lines of thinking the producers were close to pursuing at on stage in the production which then gives a sure-fire bet that if they were not pursued in the final cinematic release of the finished film that became PROMETHEUS but were still widely considered to be included in a draft connected to the PROMETHEUS production, its very safe to assume that these themes - although this time around off the starting block unsed - are sure to be revisited in the next instalment(s).
Much as all of the general material we get for PROMETHEUS would have been in a longer 3 hour-or-so version of ALIEN had they been included in that film! These were proposals that producers considered for the original ALIEN film but were scaled back and streamlined into becoming the Humans visiting the Alien spacecraft with the alien eggs housed inside instead of the expanded version where-by they would land discover the ship which give clues AND A WARNING to the existance of an alien pyramid some where near-by the the vacinity/proximity related to the Alien Engineers Juggernaught/Derilict.
They would go there find the alien, Kane gets infected then they retrive his body and eventually make it back to there ship and lift off with the better understanding of the distressed/anguished-haunting look upon the strikened aliens face, the hole punched out of his chest (who's signifigance would not be fully understood by them or indeed by 'us viewers' until the dinner scene later with Kanes death) and the seem-ingly pyramid shape apparantly etched/ scratched into the alien cotrol panel apparantly symbolising the structure they just visited, his slumped state within the Pilots Chair and his severe abdominal injury sustained by then an unknown method. I will add more to this supposition of pre-PROMETHEUS to current PROMETHEUS/PROMETHEUS 2 possibilities soon!
![](http://images.wikia.com/aliens/images/2/26/SpaceJockey.jpg)
Mala'kak
MemberOvomorphJan-02-2013 10:55 AMI just have to say Hypernova that I share a lot of your sentiments. Much of the direction in the sequels can be gleaned from reading and combining some of the info found in the earlier drafts with what we know from the movie, the virals, and deductive/inductive reasoning etc. I also agree that things were scaled back to leave room for the sequels to expand on, but many, many things were planted as the plan switched from two movies to one...
One really good example of something that might relate to things later & this movie is David's line in one draft before he attacks Watts.
He talks about how her IQ is even higher than Holloway's (he's read their profiles and says Charlie had certain characteristics). He analyzed them and knew some of their behavioural traits...
He talks about how he has a number of secondary objectives and basically they weren't going to live if you read between the lines. He may also be talking about going somewhere else. This is before much of David's character changed significantly to make him more ambiguous.
Right before David attacks Watts he says "you're all so stupid", indicating how David sees himself in relation to the crew (he was just talking about how Shaw was smarter than the rest of them...) "He didn't know she had it in her", that she was truly more intelligent than the rest of the crew/could reprogram the male only auto-med. David hides behind ambiguity in the version we know because there's more time for him to be completely evil in the second movie.
I have a feeling he views himself and Engineers as a superior species and hides a lot of his objectives now...
Him calling the crew stupid would have made things all too clear. The crew are stupid compared to him and many of them are somewhat irrational, egotistic, or unbalanced as he indicates about Holloway when he talks to Watts about their IQs and behaviours, indicating that something was off with Holloway's behaviour. He was too sure of himself...
In fact much of my theory that most of them have borderline personality disorders selected to be used by Weyland springs from this. He only hired people he knew he could control-- the Weyland vids, the interview-like ones with Janek smoking, were used to assess their psychological profiles.
Weyland and David knew how to control them. The crew aren't completely stupid as David says, he just feels they're stupid for being deceived by Weyland.
"Stupid and slow" he says when he chases down Watts and exhibits how he's physically superior to humans as well.
It's not that they're stupid. It's like Weyland, they're simply foolish, and have a few borderline personality disorders. David thinks they represent all humans but fails to realize that Weyland selected them for their deficiencies while still being bright individuals overall to ensure success while failing at the same time. He wouldn't see why Weyland would do both, but his programming allows him to guess Weyland needed people he could use who are also smart.
In the current version David is secretly gaining some true emotion, and many of the characters suffer problems showing proper emotion because of their borderline egotism. It's not the acting that's causing improper reactions to situations, these people have behavioral problems. "We were so wrong". They all thought they were right or simply in it for the money and experience. Millburn actually is there to make friends and this explains much of his behaviour, his rejection by Fifield at the beginning only makes him try harder to foolishly win his friendship in the hammerpede scene. He's trying to control and mesmerize Fifield--not the serpent. Everyone thinking they were right or being hired for a very specific purpose made it easier for Weyland to control them--he thought only he was right and that the Engineers had eternal life.
Weyland & David use faith and take it away to try to control Shaw. They use promise of a cultural find & glory for Holloway (Holloway is an egotist like Weyland/David). They even knew how to control their dreams & modify their beliefs by planting false memories in their dreams. Sometimes when two people recall an event they remember it differently, bringing in elements of selective memory to David and Shaw's account of events.
At one point the plan for two movies became the plan for one movie.
Some of this plan for leaked into the original drafts in an incomplete form...
Then much later Fox/Hill & Giler took a second look at all the mythology Ridley wanted to bring to the table and work in with the Engineers. At first there was going to be a lot more to Prometheus because the plans for two untitled prequels fell through and a lot of things found their way into the plan for one movie. Even more than in the earliest drafts leaked online. The plan became to include many plot points that would leave room for the sequel while still making it a standalone, just in case a sequel wasn't coming. They originally started making the planet LV-426 but not obviously LV-426. Then the plan became to leave it a question if it was LV-426 and this changed everything--eventually it would not be LV-426. Fox knew that the sequel had a good chance at being greenlit if they let Ridley continue making this film his way and changed it back to a different planet for the first movie, with seeds planted for where the original second movie was going to go.
Enter Fox and Ridley cutting some of the movie up that way on purpose & making some think early on that it was LV-426 in the trailers. Now the original plan for two movies was already sort of back in play, with an option for a third because of how much material from the original two movie plan is yet to be covered... They cut up parts of the movie, and the scripts early on, because there was still a chance Fox would do the sequel even after the Lindelof rewrites. They planned accordingly when Fox told them not to make it LV-426 and not to wrap everything up in one movie, hiring Lindelof at that time. They cut out just enough over what would follow to build back up the second movie into a functioning plan with what was becoming Prometheus. Prometheus was developed as a semi-standalone as well as the start of a potential franchise. The storyline changes and changes to David allow enough material for a third movie because of how big Paradise will now be.
Empire strikes back would be nothing without Star Wars to start it all off. But Empire needs Jedi to finish off the story because of all the plans that developed out of the original...
Prometheus is an even smaller beginning now but it'll still lead to something big like the original plan always intended...
The way Prometheus turned out means two parts may be needed to finish telling the story as originally planned. It would have took two stories but the nature of the first film changed too much early on. They allowed us to believe all hopes for two movies had vanished.
Fox didn't want Ridley to tell his whole story until he hooked them with what he had so far for Prometheus, which was made as a standalone only to appease Fox... Ridley included a number of cliffhangers anyway and Prometheus really wouldn't work as a standalone. Fox almost knew they had to let Ridley finish the story by the time the rough cut came in. It barely works on its own because there's a lot of things you have to answer for yourself.
But now Paradise really might take an Empire strikes back approach and need Jedi to finish the trilogy. Too much of where Prometheus would have originally gone has been left out... They deliberately made things vague for many reasons and reworked the role of David a little once Fox said hire Lindelof, give him a try, and the marketing will support the film to see if we can get a sequel out of it. They didn't go ahead with the original plan for two movies and instead tried to work in only some of the parts that would lead to the sequel and explain everything in one movie... It was developed as a standalone initially, however, it still kept the original plan for two movies in mind and as it developed they cut more and more out that might give too much away, while making the film ambiguous enough and almost complete enough with all the puzzle pieces/alien mural. Complete enough to explain many things through repeat viewings (should the sequel not be greenlit).
Many of the hints that would have been, questions answered, and new ideas explored were drastically scaled back or completely altered from the original plan and now there may be three movies on the table. When it was a for sure thing that Fox didn't even want to tell the whole story the writers started making it LV-426. Then the original plan for two untitled prequels became more relevant in Fox's eyes after the Spaight's draft, so it was changed back to not being LV-426 in the first movie. In the original plan for two untitled Alien prequels it would have always been a different planet in the first movie, which brought in the ambiguity aspects when forced to make it one. Eventually it became clearer and clearer it wasn't LV-426 because by that point they decided to test it. If it made enough money to warrant a sequel it would get one, so certain things were cut while others were planted/reinserted/reworked. Too much was rewritten from the original untitled prequels and sets were being lined up/filming locations etc... So the plan became to make it a standalone that might lead to a sequel--removing LV-426 from the equation and restoring that aspect of the untitled prequels' plans. Fox screwed themselves over by not believing in Ridley enough from the onset and now Giler and Hill have actually convinced them to let the story go forward if the movie makes enough money. Which it did. They liked where the story was going more than the shape of this first part.... Many think Hill and Giler are bad people for controlling the franchise, but in this case they may have just saved the franchise from Fox, guided Ridley and Lindelof back to the plan for multiple movies Their story may never be told because Fox wouldn't want to admit how much they almost messed up the franchise by not just letting them go ahead with the plan for the untitled prquels--which depends on the movies connecting and feeding into eachother. They played a big hand in making sure plotlines for the sequel are worked into Prometheus that will be expanded upon if Prometheus makes enough money, which it did. At the same time it could stop now and some would be satisfied, however the plan had already reverted back to developing it into a sequel in some way.
They always wanted Rildey's two movie plan. I'm just gonna say they still have a lot of say in the franchise (means more work for them lol); although Ridley and Fox had the final say over how things went. They couldn't convince Fox to gamble on two back to back movies at first. Now the Star Wars analogy might be even more apt... lets say certain parts of the Spain shoot are part of Paradise...
Some of this ties into why they kept the name Paradise throughout filming. That would have been the title of the first of the two untitled prequels...
They don't have to film all of Paradise.. The Spain shoot (which only makes up some of what we see in the water scenes & went on much longer) plays a big role and they have some footage saved for the sequel... They may even pull a Blue Lagoon because they only need to finish Paradise and now Fox is willing to fund a back to back shoot in secret. They're going to say they're filming Paradise however some of Paradise is actually finished... While filming/completing Paradise they'll use the name Paradise to coverup the third movie and complete it in secret. This allows them to release the next two movies almost back to back, out of nowhere like some were thinking with the sequel. They couldn't do it for this movie, although some people wanted to. Fox is now willing to fund the back to back movies, only because Ridley shot one and a half movies on one budget. The deal was they'd get full promotional support and access. When it made enough money then they could follow up. There could be a lot of footage intended to be in the film that we won't see, and much that we will see when Paradise comes out. A lot of my info comes from a time when the untitled prequels were being planned, some of it from closer to the Prometheus release. I've just heard from my source again recently. He's just as confused as I am as to what's going on now. No one on the inside really knows what or when to expect anything. He does believe some leftover footage and footage shot specifically for the sequel could be used for virals long before Paradise. They'd still need to finish Paradise, so there really could be an extended edition right before Paradise that includes new unseen footage leading into it. Both of us really thought 10/11/12 would have been something cool. I have a little of my own info from planning/conceptual stages, we both wholeheartedly believe that a number of things for Paradise have already been filmed and Paradise will be used as a smokescreen to film the third part... At some point they decided there was parts of the sequel they could shoot, even if the sequel wasn't a guarantee and the original first movie was heavily altered.
If Vader and Ben Kenobi & Luke's father's relationship weren't established first, the reveal wouldn't have had as much effect.
Instead we knew Luke had a father who knew Kenobi. We thought one thing about Luke's father (led to believe Luke's father died) even though it might have always been the plan to reveal him as Vader...
Similarly, things we think we know about Prometheus aren't true because of the deceptive/ambiguous nature of the movie and how that plays into the sequel and selective memory.
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HyperNova
MemberOvomorphJan-02-2013 12:58 PMThis a great response! Mala'kak, I Love it! Your thinking is very viceral and interwoven, I relish the subtext that you have an insight for. I think that way too, often when I am in observation mode!
![](http://images.wikia.com/aliens/images/2/26/SpaceJockey.jpg)
Mala'kak
MemberOvomorphJan-02-2013 2:19 PMThanks Hypernova I'm still trying to piece a lot of it together, I got really sidetracked talking about how it might be like Star Wars because I really believe they'll film the sequels back to back and use Paradise to cover for the fact that they're filming two movies. And some of Paradise's water scenes, space scenes, shots of ancient Earth, Crystal city ruins, and the look of Paradise from above/Juggernaut descending & splash landing/introduction to Elder culture is already filmed. Holloway's trip to a sunken city outlined in interviews that they said was cut for financial reasons may make a reappearance as a flashback because it was actually filmed & finished, although not for the Prometheus script...
Paradise has suffered terrible floods of biblical proportions and looks much like ancient earth at the time the Engineer is sacrificed. The flood is one of the punishments of the true Gods who are also creators of the Garden. The Engineers aren't what we think... They aren't exactly the real gods/creators yet... They're more like Atlanteans who simply popped into the myths and then disappeared after a massive flood disintegrated their culture into the ocean.
http://www.empireonline.com/interviews/interview.asp?IID=1507
"The idea that we’ve been here three billion years and nothing happened until 75,000 years ago is absolute nonsense. If something happened here two billion years ago, if there was a civilisation at least equal to ours, there would be nothing left after two billion years. It would be carbon. We talk about Atlantis and cities under the water that have long gone, long submerged, but they’re in the relatively recent past. I’m talking about one-and-a-half billion years ago — was this planet really empty? I don’t think so."
-Ridley
We know there's plant life started when the Engineer is seen and they are us, they precede us as Shaw says. What if what we think is the beginning isn't actually the beginning yet? They also share extensive bits of our culture which reveals prolonged interaction between our cultures. We're trying to apply Atlantis to sunken cities that are less than 75 000 years old, as Holloway did in the sunken city scene that was planned at one point early on. This may have been too revealing as to where they're going... In the above quote Ridley is trying to make it not so obvious as to what the Engineers will become/are revealed to be by bringing up the time-frame and Atlanteans. If there was some civilization it existed around the time the Engineer is sacrificed in the movie...
The Engineer/Atltantean genetics are only mixed with the elements in the ocean to create us and speed our evolution along... The Engineers didn't create us, and those that created them only hybridized all previously existing life that was in the oceans. Which may have already gone through a previous mass extinction because of the timeframe.
http://screenrant.com/prometheus-cast-crew-themes-interviews-sandy-163243/all/1/
"“It’s about the beginning of life and the eternal ‘what if’.’ Has this ball we’ve been sitting on right now been around for three billion years or one billion? And if we haven’t been pre-visited (by alien civilisations), then what was this planet doing for all that time before life came along? It’s only our arrogance that says, ‘No, it’s impossible, we’re the first ones.’ Are we the first hominids? I really, really, really doubt it. In recent memory or legend we keep talking about wonderful, weird things such as Atlantis – what is that? Where does that come from? Is that real, was it real, is it a memory, did it exist? And if that did exist, did it exist three quarters of a billion years ago? There’d be nothing left now. How was that created and who was it?”
-Ridley
They are us. They were the Atlanteans and stayed here for a longer time than we know. They had a culture on Earth that has since vanished, one that was at odds with the Olympian gods and joined the Titans in the war against the Gods, resulting in the fall of Atlantis. The Atlanteans stuck around before they were wiped off of the Earth for their knowledge. Humans were allowed to live outside the destroyed garden. It's never revealed where the serpent came from and why he guards the tree of knowledge and life. They're the first round of human-like beings created in the Greek myths. Prometheus creates us later, but at one point the rulers of Atlantis were creators as well--creating engineers as their servants and using their blueprints to create us. Poseidon is Zeus's brother and was given control of Atlantis, just like one deity is given control of the oceans in the Sumerian myths. There's a comparative mythology aspect to it.
There are three groups, or levels in the hierarchy. In the Sumerian myths the Engineers are the Igigi. In the Greek myths they're Atlanteans, in the bible they're the fallen angels who come down to Earth and live amongst us. Servants of the gods.
The Atlanteans rulers like Poseidon are creators too (at least hybrid creators/genetic meddlers) and mess around with genetics, eventually causing their demise on Earth, because they're related to the Titans and have already had the fire once before... In the original myths they created mermaids and were a tall race of advanced humans. That's what gave them the legends about an advanced lost culture that destroyed itself when it sank. What if both times their experiments backfired there was sabotage at play? Poseidon was bad but not as bad as Hades and not as harsh as Zeus at times (setting up angels and Dark angels out of their offspring...) After Zeus's brother Poseidon and his creations (The Atlanteans) went rogue it led to the fall of Atlantis and them disappearing from Earth. Most of the ones that escaped that flood left to the place depicted in the star maps, where the creators had once been before the Engineers were punished on Earth after being basically forced to live and reproduce there. The first beings that sprung out of the ocean were reproductions of that original Engineer, which started the Atlantean colony. Atlantis was simply a colony to a much bigger Empire and we were always intended to be absorbed into their Empire... and genetic pool. The Engineers/Atlanteans fought alongside the Titans against the Olympians (Elders) during the Greek Titanomachy and all but disappeared shortly after. Leaving some of the star maps behind to teach us about the constellation and then having them reproduced by humans many years after that until all the Atlanteans die out. They were living with us for a time... The thing is David is totally misleading us about their intentions for Earth... It's their home too and they once stood up for it against the truly evil Elders.
They offered us knowledge at one point to help against our garden keepers. only like Prometheus in some ways & how Prometheus creates us as another round of them. Poseidon is the creator of the first round of humans--the Atlanteans. More like the serpent in the garden of Eden who tried to share knowledge with us, but this also damaged the plans of the true god/titans and the garden was destroyed. The last remaining Atlanteans are made out to be the serpent in this story... offering Eve the apple. Paradise on Earth was destroyed, again. The gods higher up are even more vengeful at times. The reason they want to "destroy" us and recreate us or allow some of us to survive is they're acting like god. It's always been the job of the gods to punish us when we get out of line. They're taking their jobs too seriously now. Something in the past changed the Engineers. Just like their Titan allies and Prometheus they've suffered the punishment of the other factions of angels, the gods above, and barely lived to tell before being driven further and further into a war with the Elders and the so-called light angels (who are the ones who didn't go rogue).
The Engineers/Atlanteans blame us for what happened in the ancient past when they lived among us and sharing knowledge with us finally sunk the rest of their civilization here with a massive plague followed by a flood. The flood used to clean worlds of the bioweapon after it was deployed. We were created as a byproduct of their recreation of genetics and culture... When Prometheus opens the Engineers are still servants and the Elders are still somewhat good. The Titans were the ones calling the shots at that time. Earth was to be under Engineer control... They recreated us and the Atlanteans by making us the next round of humanity. That was Prometheus recreating Atlanteans as us, a later round of humans. However the other Engineers return or redevelop alongside us and stopped us from becoming part of the false god's Empire eventually... they stopped the Elders from taking control of Earth. The Titans are the true creators. The Engineers just feel this is their true home now as most others have been destroyed and are constant targets of the Elders. Elders have now taken up residence in Paradise and when Shaw and David arrive they're under the impression the Elders are the good ones. They're more like politicians who hide themselves away from the war. Their soldiers and servants have turned against them, making the Engineers seem evil because they'll do anything to win, including using us now. And Shaw and David flew into a civil war of galactic scale.
The Engineers/Atlanteans left Earth to make war with their parents/creators. "Doesn't everyone want to see their parents dead"
The Atlanteans/Engineers are kind of like our older brothers as opposed to our creators. David is like a sibling to humanity.
David wants to see all the creators above them destroyed.
He may gain sympathy for the natives like Lawrence in Lawrence of Arabia.
We see little flashes of weird things as David finishes watching Shaw's dream. We then see a brief shot of David flash before the screen as he's disconnecting but he's still in dream world.
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Indy John
MemberOvomorphJan-02-2013 6:00 PMPrometheus has made quite an impact in our little world.
If just 1/4 of the storyline you have outlined comes to fruition I think this movie community will just go bezerk.
Hmm... I sort of welcome that...
Be choicelessly aware as you move through life