terrible thought - all the ENGINEERS are dead

Well the biggest clues are.... Why did he make Prometheus... and that was to explore who the Big Guy in Alien was, which then got changed and given the plot that he/they was giant (or not so lol) Humanoid Race who played a hand in our creation. Why go to explore this race of Engineers as the Space Jockey only to leave so many clues and unanswered things about them in Prometheus to then have it turn out they are all dead. Not much scope for Prometheus 2 is it, David and Shaw find a dead or empty world, and just we see them activate Holograms again and maybe a few Flash Back Scenes like the Water Fall one.... Worse still if they are all dead because of the Black Goo or even Xeno, as well do we want to see a Shaw and David vs Aliens or just see Prometheus Urns results again and again..... Ridley has such a bold story for these Engineers and the Elders, Prometheus only touches upon them slightly and the deleted Full Sacrificial Scene showed us some Elders. Why delete that, why also have Prometheus open so we either go to where the Engineers come from if they are all dead, or have Weyland Yutani set a mission to find what happened to Prometheus and find the Deacon.. NO THANKS. Prometheus 2 has to be about the Engineers and the Elders... Shaw wants to find out.. Why did they create us? and then why did they want us Destroyed? But then the bigger questions are, why did they order LV 223 to be used to store/test and produce a new type of Bio Weapon to be used on us, but then never bother to find out what happened. Maybe there was a War and maybe the Home World has fallen victim to the rebellious fraction of Engineers or the Xeno. But surely to make any movie and to warrant deleting the Elder Engineer scene there must be some Engineers and Elders left, maybe who ever is left has decided to keep themselves to themselves and surely they must not be no Xenos or Deacons etc etc on the lose. Prometheus 2 i think will touch upon and should be about. 1) Who are the Engineers and Elders and whats their connection? 2) Why do they seed worlds the way they did in Prometheus? 3) Where do these Elders/Engineers come from? 4) What was/is their Agenda? 5) What is left of their culture now and why? 6) Why did they create us? 7) Who created them? 8 ) What else have they created? Adding to that could be these but these may be answered i feel in Prometheus 3 9) Why did they want us dead? 10) Why/When did they create or change LV 223 into a Weapons Facility? Then finally some questions that may or may never get answered in Prometheus 3.... 11) What happened on LV 223 that caused their downfall? 12) How did they create or obtain the Urns? 13) What connection does that have with the Xeno in Alien? There are many many questions and many many ways that they can tell the story of the Home World and how would that explain some plot holes, like why no one never came back. MAYBE..... They never knew we was created or that we was destined to be destroyed or both..... Ultimately the Engineers on LV 223 Stole the FIRE that was used to seed life on that world at the start of Prometheus to then create at a much latter time Mankind. These Engineers got fed up because we would not and stopped serving them as Gods and was rebellious and doing things they did not want us to do, we basically broke their 10 commandments and we would not accept them as our Gods. They tried to change our ways via many emissaries but we still never changed and even crucified them. They then used the FIRE to now manipulate a Bio Weapon (Xeno) into a new variant of the Bio Weapon stored within the Urns..... this was PLAYING WITH FIRE TOO FAR.... and they ultimately got BURNT. Thus this was the Punishment for stealing the Fire in the first place. Thats similar to what i think is going on, maybe the Home World knew or maybe they did not and thus LV 223 Engineers Stole Fire from them.

All's I know is there's been NOT A SINGLE BLIP on the Engineer radar since the time of the Roman Empire, if we're to surmise that this narrative is valid. Yes, I realise it's only a story, hence my contention that (in the story that follows i.e. Paradise) we may be close to finding that THERE AIN'T NOONE HOME NO MORE :)

Agreed but that would not make a interesting movie... Also we have to consider how far is it away? Its 34 Light Years to LV 223 from Earth and took Prometheus 2 years, so i doubt it takes the Engineers that long to get to Earth i mean i cant see him sit in his Pilot Chair for 2 years. So maybe the Home World is a vast distance away, 2000, 20'000 Light Years, some distance so vast away that maybe they dont know about us. Maybe it takes Shaw and David a vast amount of time to get there like how Riply was in Stasis for over 50 years maybe it takes Shaw as long to get to the Homeworld. This would set when they find the Home World after Alien maybe even after Aliens as then it would help deal with potential Plot Holes as far as finding these Elders who then may want to know about us or if they know want to have us destroyed then how come we are still around by time of Alien 3 or Alien Resurrection. Such a Plot could then bring the Engineers back in contact with us way after the events of Alien Resurrection and avoid that big Plot Hole. I just cant see Ridley give us a movie where there are no Engineers or Elders in and also i cant see him dish up a feast of Xenos or other Black Goo creations. I guess ultimately though FOX is in control... If Ridley wants to do one thing, but FOX wants him to say go back to the Elders being a different Space Jockey 15ft Race and also to show the Xeno creation... If Ridley says no... then i am sure FOX could just get who ever they wanted in to do what ever they wanted. This is why also Ridley would not go around in Prometheus to try and make the ideas in Aliens to Alien 3 appear as non canon and not legit as the Xeno is big bucks for FOX There is no way they would allow Ridley to damage the concepts of the Xeno as FOX cashes in as far as Game Rights, Merchandise, DVD Sales and Toys and Models and other things.

The universe is vast. At 100 times the speed of light and say Shaw living another 40 years how far could she go 4000 light years ? Even if only 1 year pass for her for every 10 years in due to hypersleep and relativity thats 40 000 light years - not even halfway out of our galaxy - are the engineers and elders only in our galaxy ? How far did they spread through our galaxy. I think they (scientists) have found over 200 planets that could possibly support life (that's what I heard don't ask) . I don't know if they are all in our galaxy . So what are the chances of the engineers only spreading to our part of the galaxy ? Do they use sub space frequencies to communicate ? Or will their messages be delayed like ours are (travel at the speed of light) ? My guess is there are other engineers and juggs in our galaxy . But are they able to communicate instantaneously with each other ? Even if they could communicate instantaneously how far are they ? Then the must be at least 200 000 light years away ( at 100 time the speed of light ) not to have reached us yet assuming they were contacted and decided to come. At 30 times speed of light times that is 60 000 light years. Then maybe they are the only ones in our galaxy . Then David must have the distance to the other planets and speed of the jugg and thereby knew the time span of the flight ? Would he have lied to shaw ? The elders decide where and when to seed - why wouldn't they decide when to use the xenomorph/ampules ? Wre The engineers on lv 223 were doing their own thing ? - maybe they tried to hide it from the elders ? Why would engineers want to deploy Xenomorphs/ampules without the knowledge of the elders ? If elders are around and in 2000 years of flying time and assuming their ships can do worm hole hopping or fly at 300 times the speed of light they can be outside our galaxy and the engineers on lv 223 would have a hard time hiding from them. Then as BigDave said ; why would the elders want us dead ? Was the emmisary an elder ? Then engineers are the workers as bigdave said and the elders are the bosses controlling ? What would happen to engineers refusing to obey ? Destruction ? Maybe the hell Ridley was refering to ? Awaiting Shaw and David ? I believe though there are definitely other engineers . Why would elders decide to do their own work suddenly if they have engineers lying around ? Maybe the sj was an elder flying enemy ship on kamikazi mission ?

@FreePlanet; I also thought the same thing, because they never finished the mission to destroy earth with a new crew.

Well some of the Production staff did a interview in a SPFX French Magazine that was translated on here a long time ago. In it one said the movie focus on the Engineer race who have seeded various lifeforms through out the Galaxy. Well thats one big place. Look at Earth if you say started a around the world trip at say starting at Ecuador then via Car and Boat you traveled all the way across the equator and on way visit many places along that line including Gabon, Kenya, Singapore then Papa New Guina and back to Ecuador well thats nearly like 25'000 miles. But you would have hardly explored the entire Earth, in every nook and cranny in every Tree, let alone under the Sea. My point being that going in one direction across the Galaxy for so many thousands of Light Years would still not scratch the surface of what could be out there.

But yes back to the Topic, while there are questions about who the Space Jockey as and the Xeno... Well now its opened up a can or worms as the scope of these Engineers is so vast and not only having them as simply a Alien Race at War who some how ended up on that moon with that Cargo. Now they are this race who played a hand at creating us then attempted to destroy us, well it does leave that big question to answer. Not why or how etc... But why indeed no other Elder or Engineers from the Homeworld ever went back to see what happened on LV 223... surely there must be someone at home who must think..... ummmmm its been while since we heard of Paul, or Bob etc... Unless they did communicate with LV 223 and Bob simply told them.... its sorted Boss all is fine here and went to plan.... thus again the Last Engineer may have told the Elders something that then makes the Elders think its either sorted or just not worth their time... Or else surely they would come to see what went down or wrong.... unless again they are dead or mostly dead or they dont know what went down or that we even exist anymore.

or maybe nobody turned up because 'some locational reference to us' and our unprotected planet was WIPED CLEAN by someone involved with the Good Guys (which the alienised Pilots) certainly don't seem to be. A Good Samaritan who hid us from the 'Gods' vengeance?? It's all good tucker for the brainzzz.

According to Plato, there was a big war thousands of years ago that wiped Atlantis out from the face of the Earth. So following this thread's idea, maybe the "engineers" are not engineers at all, they are from Earth and we are their biological descendants with small DNA differences due to changes that happened on Earth after the war. So their legend was portrayed on the drawings of cavemen along with the constellation of their last destination after they destroyed Earth. Also the last scene reminded me of the Enochian mythology, I think that if the last survivor wanted Shaw dead, he could have done it because he had many chances, he wanted her alive for some reason. In the last scene he seems more like a sexual predator, take a look again at the way he catches her head at the scene before Shaw opened the door to release her "monstrous" child, he doesn't look like he wants to kill her. Maybe that's why Weyland was killed by the "engineer", immortality was a privilege of "gods" and not humans, like the 12 ancient gods of Greece who retained their immortality by eating ambrosia the food of the gods and demigods. [quote]And it came to pass when the children of men had multiplied that in those days were born unto them beautiful and comely daughters. And the angels, the children of the heaven, saw and lusted after them, and said to one another: 'Come, let us choose us wives from among the children of men and beget us children.' And Semjaza, who was their leader, said unto them: 'I fear ye will not indeed agree to do this deed, and I alone shall have to pay the penalty of a great sin.' And they all answered him and said: 'Let us all swear an oath, and all bind ourselves by mutual imprecations not to abandon this plan but to do this thing.' Then sware they all together and bound themselves by mutual imprecations upon it. And they were in all two hundred; who descended in the days of Jared on the summit of Mount Hermon, and they called it Mount Hermon, because they had sworn and bound themselves by mutual imprecations upon it...[/quote] Is it possible that in the first scene we actually see the punishment of Semjaza, for mixing his DNA with ours?

Freeplanet I thought we talked about this back in june - I had a different account back then. Pretty sure it was one of the first things I pointed out about shaws notes - I think the last time they came here was 1000 years ago according to them so a long time after that guy died on lv 223! And I said that this points to the most likely conclusion that they had all died or at least a massive percentage of them! To have not turned up on 1000 years or so seems weird but who knows with this plot its way too open! The other interesting thing that might be linked to this was the engineer hibernating on the set was labeled 'hero' I did wonder if this meant he was the last hero of the engineers and he was going to do something heroic being the last of his kind but its probably not not linked - just a thought...

If the Engineers end up being dead, i'm going to put the franchise in a dark ****ing hole, with no ****ing exits... and forget about it. We get to see ONE Engineer, and he freakin' DIES. Being the last of his race? Screw that! I'm an Engineer nut-swinger. Engineer pyjamas, Engineer ship-shaped bed. Engineer action figures. Even Engineer cereal. If this were to happen, i'd be pissed...

Heh but there could be lots of hologram action and elders or god like beings...and dont forget the deacon :D

yeap, is one of the possibilities...In fact I can imagine Shaw and David reaching their destination to find ruins and more ruins and then the mystery continues FOREVER!!! (or at least until the third film XD)

or maybe they find a cluster of asteroids which used to be the planet of the Engineers :p

that would be cool shaman

I love rocks [img]http://i1157.photobucket.com/albums/p589/jokerdeldesierto/cinturonkuiper_zpsb3279834.jpg[/img] [img]http://i1157.photobucket.com/albums/p589/jokerdeldesierto/Caliban_asteroid_belt_zpsb7b2b25d.jpg[/img] [img]http://i1157.photobucket.com/albums/p589/jokerdeldesierto/asteroid_belt-1920x1080_zps5a5ef4cf.jpg[/img]

This is the GOD of all Chestburster in the whole universe XD [img]http://i1157.photobucket.com/albums/p589/jokerdeldesierto/tumblr_m8azaaL3XM1qkd7h4o1_500_zpsedf5114e.jpg[/img] [img]http://i1157.photobucket.com/albums/p589/jokerdeldesierto/tumblr_m6wp19yA1F1qkd7h4o1_1280_zpsd8ca9c4e.jpg[/img]

Prenihility, sorry, your comment made me think of the work of Tom of Finland. Shambs, it's all been done before, LOL All, on the subject of space travel i.e. 100 times light speed that FTL offers Weyland Industries. I really don't think a race like The Engineers will rely on (mere) FTL. They'll HAVE TO HAVE spacetime-folding tech of some sort, wormholes, stargates, callemwhatyouwill, otherwise how could they get an UPDATE that their last emmisary on this planet Space Jesus had been setup, tortured and hung hig for the crime of UP-ENDING THE MONEY-LENDERS' TABLES? They organised and arranged their TERROR CELL on LV-223 into action 'fairly soon' after getting news of the murder of their chosen emmisary. Implying either i) they have such 'instant travel' (I suggest this takes place through stars) or ii) they're near to earth, all the time. And I don't think the last time we were visited was 1,000 years back ... we're still here. Something wiped us off the Engineer's map. Either an act of deception at their end by friendly agents, or they're just ALL DEAD for some unknown reason. They weren't GOD or GODS anyhow, just another couple technical leaps ahead of us. In fact, they WERE US just with bigger toys, still as petty and moronic most of the time. But was Engineer trying to 'romance' Shaw, that's the question we need to ask - what was he trying to 'do' to here, holding her head like that and just 'analysing' her?

Freeplanet Yes was the engineer looking at shaw and "Seeing " her innards realising she was different to the males ? Was he discovering his own sexuality ? I still believe the reason bob ripped of Davids head was that he knew physically David represented the biggest threat to him being an android. Which beggs the question how dod he know so quickly that David was an android 6th sense x ray vision or simply a beliggerent level of intelligence ? By the same token he might have realised: this is a woman and said to himself : for the first time I see a female specimen of them !! Why have my masters kept this from me ? Is this the world they have ? It is so beautiful - why nust it be destroyed ? My point is : did the elders want mankind destroyed because their insolence and disobedience to the elders might have allowed the engineers to see the way mankind WAs living and actually stirred them to the same ? And now bob seeing their world is saying - how beautiful why would my masters want this destroyed ? Was the cave drawing representing an alder or an engineer ?

oduodu, may the debate continue....

Yes indeed .......!!!!!

Prometheus part 2's name : Discombobulation

[b]Prophasis[/b] is the spirit of excuses and pleas.

:D another good one...yer I liked my CYDOIMUS the greek god of confusion I should send that in to ridley :P ...

Shambs, I realise now, you're going for an ALDERAAN-destroyed Millennium Falcon dropping out of hyperspace into a shower of planetary rockery. Right? Trite? :) And the DEAD ENGINEER PLANET is a cracking story arc, with yet more investigational potential for the next set of films in the Prometheus Franchise == oh, yes, you know this is going MAJOR FRANCHISE or MINI SERIES cum MAJOR SERIES. Was PROMETHEUS the pilot film for such? In the same way that the STARGATE was the pilot for Stargate SG1, StarGate Universe, Stargate Atlantis et al.....

I don't think all of them will be dead. They may not have returned to Earth because the universe is just so big, with so many other worlds, that they just overlooked it. The base on LV 223 was ruined, maybe deliberately by the engineers from their home-world, and maybe they passed some new laws at the time forbidding any more contact with primitive races. Shaw means to wipe them out I think, though, using their weapons against them.

Thanks for post. [url=http://www.ultra-snob.com]Bedding Sets Manufacturer[/url] [URL=http://www.easobuy.com"]Online Shopping India[/URL] [URL=http://www.easobuy.com]Online Shopping In India[/URL]

Thanks.