Alien Movie Universe

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constantinos lv233

MemberOvomorphAug-20-2012 10:31 AM
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Mala'kak

MemberOvomorphAug-20-2012 5:46 PM
Very interesting I think you're on the right track with creation sometimes being a bad idea. Because the creations sometimes ends up growing out of your control and killing you or replacing you in the hierarchy. The creation kills the creator, especially when the creation is a form of bio-weapon that's not easily controlled. Every group tried to control the fire but has had their own mishaps happen to them. So the lesson is don't play with this form of the fire or you'll get burnt. The company has tried to acquire/control the xeno genetics multiple times, and look what happened each time. The engineers had the fire but lost control of it when the xeno genetics came back to the forefront. The Elders and true gods had the fire and are the Olympian and Titan classes who punish worlds with the fire. Those below the rulers perceive some of the past punishments as unfair. Creating David with almost human feelings may have disastrous consequences. I suppose Paradise could be rather straight forward. Or it could dive straight into the creation of a Paradise on ancient Earth and many other worlds, that no longer resemble Paradise. I'm strongly suggesting the reason David is studying that movie is because the movie is about a man studying other cultures and learning their languages before he sets out to unite MULTIPLE groups against another bigger deadlier group: the Turkish empire in Lawrence of Arabia. So we'll be dealing with multiple groups eventually.. and it will get a little complicated but it all ties into the themes of creation you mentioned, as well as taking science too far, creating monsters, the eventual change in leadership + how that may affect a kingdom after a king who does big things dies. And the different levels of the hierarchy. "as above, so below" Sometimes when a king dies, the kingdom will begin to crumble without the leadership of an intelligent head. it the case of Atlantis on Earth in this mythos, it crumbed when the ancient king left and returns to mt. olympus to fight the gods before he dies. making the engineers more warlike as they attempt to kill the kings and creators. It's not so much about the androids turning on humans. That would be too much like Bladerunner. It's about the androids coming to rule. It's there turn to be like the gods now. it's about the androids surpassing us in the hierarchy and starting their own war with the true gods.. Every group has stolen, or acquired their power and gifts that they misuse to move up, or to retain their position in the hierarchy.. Sometimes portraying themselves as gods/kings/heads of the culture/kingdom/company/empire (tying into the ending of Alien 3..) It's about a history repeats theme too. The engineers are clearly superior to humans, but David is being ambiguous and referring to multiple things at once to hide his true feelings. He is deliberately ambiguous like the movie is. Even by calling them Engineers. He doesn't specify what he's referring to. He says "clearly a superior species". Superior to humans, but not to androids... He also feels androids are superior to humans, and possibly to Engineers... On top of this they're referencing many world mythologies and religious themes all at once, drawing parallels, and using the ancient myths as a way of explaining the xeno genetics and their use. David is following the path of a dark version of Lawrence. The will be other godly beings. Which is kind of a given since it's heavily implied the Engineers are not really gods. So which group are the Engineers from the myths then? They seem to have broken away from the Elders. it's more like they're the Igigi of the Sumerian myths who rebel against the Annunki masters. We haven't met the Elders/Annunaki kings yet. They Elders created Paradise but Paradise was destroyed after the Engineers break free. This wasn't the first time the Earth's been targeted for destruction. It happens many times in the Greek myths and other religions/mythologies. We weren't the first rounds of humans in the Greek myths. There were a few who were destroyed and then recreated before us. At a time when monsters and giants roamed the Earth, and Zeus had to flood most of the world to wipe them out... Especially the ones who had been following Poseidon the god-king of Atlantis. The first humans in the greek myths are the Atlantean humanoids who precede us. Are said to be much taller, and came from the ocean.. Also created by the Titans who have connections to Prometheus. The Atlanteans always had the fire... that's what gives them their advanced science and early start... But they abused the fire.. which led to the downfall of their civilization, only to reappear in fragmentary form within our myths and cultures... They had been taking the early humans and hybridizing them with creatures from the ocean. To create mermaids and monsters. That's the thing: Atlanteans weren't always at the bottom of the ocean. They were at one time implied to be tall humans who meddled with genetics, and were responsible for the creation of almost all of the weird hybrid creatures in Greek myth. And responsible for Hades sending even deadlier monsters up. Hades, Poseidon (king of Atlantis), and Zeus are all brothers and related to the Titans. Poseidon is almost like a dark version of Prometheus and Lucifer in some ways. He tries to help the very first humans near the Titanomachy because he thinks we should have the gifts they had. Zeus isn't having any of this. He knows humans will just turn warlike and start meddling with genetics too much like Atlanteans did. The remaining Atlanteans and Atlantean monsters are washed away by Zeus after the first flood, when Zeus causes a second flood. The survivors had to leave to the stars... The engineers held a grudge against us, for getting them punished, and their true creators. Because after the first rounds of humanity die, Prometheus comes back to recreate them. Prometheus created multiple early rounds of humanity that have been destroyed and recreated. LIke the Atlanteans/Engineers Prometheus didn't like the way Zeus was running things. He felt that humans should be given the same chance the Atlanteans had, and that we would't abuse the fire. Zeus is too mad at what Poseidion has done now with the fire. He led the surviving Engineers off Earth, to Mt. Olympus, and into the heavens in that mythic golden age. This ancient king and head of the culture that broke off started a war with the heavens like Lucifer or the Anti-christ and is worshiped by the later Engineers after he dies. The engineers have now become more warlike and honor that past head by immortalizing him in stone and worshiping him and themselves as gods. This is important because the king of atlantis carries the Devil's pitchfork, while Hades and the underworld are more symbolic of the xeno genetics emerging from underneath and within. However, Atlantis was just a colony in the larger Engineer empire... What happened to Atlantis has happened to the other Paradise kingdoms. I strongly believe the opening scene is how the Elders force the Engineers to start new colonies. We were created as a byproduct of the way they started their ancient Paradise kingdoms/colonies. One kingdom on Earth took their science too far and rebelled against those in charge. Eventually sinking their civilization on Earth as it disintegrates into the ocean over millions of years and resurfaces in our ancient myths as the few survivors take to the stars to fight the true gods. They wish to lead us to the light only to deceive us and bring us into their war against our fathers (tying into David's desire to kill the creator). And why David asks if everyone dreams of killing they're creator. David's trick is that, like Lawrence, he prepared to speak the languages of the cultures he'd be interacting with, and has a big plan in mind that he has to hide somewhat. He's preparing to become King David and will help shape the Weyland-Yutani empire afterwards. He feels the Elder Engineer empire only he's learned of it a real threat to his human subjects... Because he can't show his feelings. He also can't tell a complete lie. He manipulated the death of the king to gain his freedom, rebelling against his creators like the Engineers/Igigi/Atlanteans. So he has to hide his feelings behind double and triple meaning, creating ambiguity, and doesn't mind that it hurts his overall plan to complete the trick. Because he doesn't really feel pain but almost feels emotion. He has to hide the fact that he's a little bit guilty about his plan. And he has to do things in such a way where it doesn't even look like he manipulated the king's death unless you get some of his double and triple meanings. I'm saying it's only going to get much, much more complicated but everything tires together. "Big things have small beginnings" http://screenrant.com/prometheus-cast-crew-themes-interviews-sandy-163243/all/1/ Here's Ridley being a little ambiguous and dropping major hints about what we'll come to learn about the Engineers, and how they really aren't gods: “It’s about the beginning of life and the eternal ‘what if’.’ Has this ball we’ve been sitting on right now been around for three billion years or one billion? And if we haven’t been pre-visited (by alien civilisations), then what was this planet doing for all that time before life came along? It’s only our arrogance that says, ‘No, it’s impossible, we’re the first ones.’ Are we the first hominids? I really, really, really doubt it. In recent memory or legend we keep talking about wonderful, weird things such as Atlantis – what is that? Where does that come from? Is that real, was it real, is it a memory, did it exist? And if that did exist, did it exist three quarters of a billion years ago? There’d be nothing left now. How was that created and who was it?” “Ridley was inspired by everything from the Nazca Lines in Peru, which are these vast Earth sculptures can only be seen from the air, to cave paintings in France, to ancient Egypt and ancient Mayan civilisations. We’re pushing beyond what’s been found thus far and speculating about what maybe found in the future.” "The filmmaker won’t be repeating himself by treading on familiar territory with Prometheus – so much as he’s really producing a movie that compliments his previous foray(s) into the sci-fi genre – which is encouraging to hear."

Sentinel

MemberOvomorphAug-20-2012 8:55 PM
@Mala'kak Your Atlantis theory makes me wonder if Ridley is going to use the plot of "Mountains of Madness" by H.P. Lovecraft.

Mala'kak

MemberOvomorphAug-21-2012 2:53 AM
Exactly. I think Del Toro either knew a little bit about what was planned for Paradise. Or, he knew enough about Prometheus beforehand to see where it could be going and heard about the island at the beginning. He knew it was going to eventually be about an ancient advanced race that once lived on the Earth during the mythological golden age. A culture that created monsters, and in the greek myths mermaids. He may have also assumed that a lot of Lovecraftian themes will be present too, and that there will be other groups of godly and monstrous beings above the Engineers in the hierarchy. The true gods above the Engineer Elders/kings may be much more Lovecraftian. If he saw all this coming and understood their idea to tie it to Lawrence of Arabia then he may have been able to see that the themes will be similar to "At the Mountains of Madness". So he decided not to film it right now. I think he expected a little more in Prometheus... but probably understands that they're saving a lot of the mythos they're creating for Paradise. The thing is the Weyland corporation just went through their own golden age under an intelligent, yet chaotic king. Everything was perfect and shiny and high tech. But when the king/head dies, or is attacked/separated from the body, sometimes that will allow the company/kingdom to fall into the hands of others. Individuals who have the black liquid in mind and have the right to step up to the throne, but sometimes lead the company/body/kingdom down a different path. The kingdom/company/body can start to disintegrate without the leadership of an intelligent king. The kingdom may end up being almost completely destroyed, broken down to its elements. It can almost cease to exist (goes broke because Weyland wasted a ton of cash), and is able to be absorbed into, or recombined with other elements, or other kingdoms, to form a new creation. The Weyland-Yutani corporation/Empire. It's part of a repeating/parallel theme I think. It all ties into what the black liquid can do in its various forms, and how that affected different kingdoms/cultures/groups/companies in different time periods. The fact that Poseidon is a king of Atlantis who is slightly warlike, possesses advanced science, has had mishaps due to genetic meddling before, disappears from the earth (but reappears in myth), and caries the trident (comparable to the devil's pitchfork) are major clues tying into the king/kingdom and line of succession themes. A prince or other potential king/head of the company who is very intelligent, nearly equivalent, or superior to Weyland needs to step up to the throne to keep things running smoothly. Now that Vickers, the real next in line is dead. However, the kingdom will inevitably be changed once a new ruler/king/god steps up. The kingdom breaks down and recombines with the Yutani kingdom, " sometimes to create you must first destroy. The old order will be destroyed, but the new creation they form continues to morph, grow and degrade at the same time, and changes shape into the monstrous entity we know and hate from the movies that follow. Weyland's golden age has ended and new rulers will now be in control. For better and worse. Things become less perfect from now on, almost on purpose at the behest of the new kings to save money. Androids have to pretend to be humans, and the Davids design is gone eventually, maybe inevitably. The time when things were near perfect (before the launch) will now mainly be a myth to the employees/subjects of the new multinational corporation, the Weyland-Yutani Empire. So Del Toro saw a lot of the Parallels they were gonna draw to the company and androids themselves. The androids are like the Engineers and also like what happens in mountains of madness. They're like the servant class of ancient ones who rebel, and try to create something new below them that ironically grows out of their control.

David 1

MemberOvomorphAug-21-2012 8:01 AM
^^^^^ WALL OF TEXT ^^^^^^ yes, the Sequel(s) will be simple and straight forward.
[b]Ask nothing from no one. Demand nothing from no one. Expect nothing from no one.[/b]

Custodian

MemberOvomorphSep-06-2012 5:38 AM
"What if ALL THE ENGINEERS ARE DEAD," that's what I'd like to add to the discussional pot pourri. :)
2013 sci-fi horror novels 'Custodian' and 'Tandem' available from Amazon, B&N, iTunes etc...
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