Sequence of events Prometheous and Alien

@ eggs or something... Read my posts in my thread [url=http://www.prometheus-movie.com/community/forums/topic/9517]Snorkelbottom's Paradise - Prometheus 2[/url] for a possible, viable way in which the company come to learn of "treasures" waiting for them on LV-426.

"DISCUSS" yes sir!!! 1 - the Derelict is pretty old 2 - most prob there will be no conection to the ALIEN derelict in the future Sequel(s).

[i]How the company finds out about the warning beacon on LV-426 is a mistery.[/i] Not much of a mystery. In the novelization of [i]Alien[/i], Ripley guessed that either a Company probe or an off-course ship might have picked up the signal. Granted, that explanation isn't definite, but it still works.

Hercules - thanks for this. I still think that the source of the signal would have needed investigating first by the Company to justify the content of the "Special Order" for Ash to "Bring back life form, crew expendable" etc ... I agree a signal can be picked up but how would have they known the details of what the Nostromo was going to find there? Maybe I'm missing something, but would you not agree that the derilict had to be previously visited (by other humans or androids maybe) before the Nostromo Crew arrival?

Just seen this on the Weyland Industries website: Discovery of Acheron LV-426 Weyland astronomers discover multiple moons and a ringed planet just outside the Zeta 2 Reticula System, which are possibly able to support life. Weyland expects to travel there within the century. May 14, 2039 The above would indicatwe that the Comapny did travel there before sending the Nostromo to the lions den!

Excellent - thanks

' @ Snorkelbottom... That was an excellent read from your link - you should pitch to write the script for P-2!

@Eggs or something: The [i]Nostromo[/i]'s visit was the investigating. Going back to the novelization, either Ripley or Ash surmised that for the Company to save money, they would just simply reroute the next ship passing through that stellar neighborhood instead of sending out an expensive survey ship. Plus, Ash pointed out that knowingly transporting a dangerous organism to a populated world, especially Earth, is illegal. By the [i]Nostromo[/i] crew "accidentally" finding the alien, there would be lesser penalties volleyed at the Company. Sending out a well-equipped expedition would be a bit obvious. Also, if at the planet the crew of the [i]Nostromo[/i] should find nothing, the Company didn't waste any resources. The Company had no idea how dangerous this lifeform was per the derelict's transmission. The [i]Nostromo[/i]'s investigation was purely out of the Company's curiosity. Again, they had no idea what they were getting into.

@ Hercules: I agree on the point of using the Nostromo to investigate, it makes sense to economise. But the detail in the special order and the description of the Alien in Ash's final words proves the Company knew more than just mere curiousity. How, is my question really ...

@Eggs or something: "Bring back lifeform; all other priorities rescinded; crew expendable" still doesn't mean that the Company knew what it was. By assuming that the Company knew what it was based on that, it's like that guy on the History Channel with the funky hair that says, "I'm not saying it was aliens, but it was aliens!", or someone saying, "We don't know what it was, so it must be [fill in the blank]!"

Question: If "The Company" (i.e., Weyland Industries or Weyland-Yutani Corp) knew about the xeno and therefore "sent" the Nostromo to retrieve it (which clearly seems to be the case), then how/why does The Company appear to know NOTHING about the Derelict/Eggs, etc. when Ripley awakens in Aliens? "We've had terraformers on LV-426 for years and they never said anything about any aliens..." -- Van Leuwen, Aliens, 1986

@ Hercules: Interesting take but I'm not convinced. If you listen to interviews with the origianl script writers (O'Bannon) they discussed at length on ways / ideas of how to get the Alien on the ship and came up with the "impregnating a crew member" idea to disguise the transport of the alien itself (inside Kane). So the same theory applies to the assumption the Company would have to make to ensure return of the life form to earth. If they were not aware of the detail on how the Xeno's attacked other organisms it would have been difficult for them to ensure the return of the organism on the Nostromo.

Why do you think they put the colony there, they knew what was there, they just didn't know exactly where it was located on LV-426

@Red Wolf: If you should send out an order as nefarious as Special Order 937 which results in the disappearance of a ship and it's crew, would you leave a paper trail leading back to you? Of course not. If a ship goes missing, naturally there would be an investigation and finger pointing. You wouldn't want to be the target of either. 57 years go by, and those who had participated in SO 937 would have either quit the Company, got fired, retired, died, or something else. Some would suspect that the Company still knew after all those years, which should make you wonder why they never went back to investigate the signal. Mind you, Burke only ordered this because he was going on Ripley's info gleaned from her hearing.

Red Wolf - Good point - maybe there was someone in the Company prior to the Nostromo mission that had a specific agenda which others (the leadership) did not know about as it was an illegal order.

[i]Interesting take but I'm not convinced. If you listen to interviews with the origianl script writers (O'Bannon) they discussed at length on ways / ideas of how to get the Alien on the ship and came up with the "impregnating a crew member" idea to disguise the transport of the alien itself (inside Kane).[/i] But in that context, it had nothing to do with what the Company knew. It had to do with making the story work. If anything, O'Bannon hated the idea of what he calls "The Russian Spy" (Ash hiding his true purpose). [i]So the same theory applies to the assumption the Company would have to make to ensure return of the life form to earth. If they were not aware of the detail on how the Xeno's attacked other organisms it would have been difficult for them to ensure the return of the organism on the Nostromo.[/i] Which begs the question, without any speculation from us, how does the Company know what was on LV-426? @Snorklebottom: The Company just came across LV-426 because it was rich in methane; perfect for terraforming. In the novelization of [i]Alien[/i], Dallas, under the impression that the transmission was a distress call, switched it off so no one else would set down there. In the director's cut of [i]Aliens[/i], JC wanted to hint that the lava floe that damaged the nacelle of the derelict knocked the signal offline.

if timeline accurate, and LV-426 croissant older than LV-223 five croissants, does this mean EGGS came before BLACK GOO? Does indeed point towards BACK ENGINEERING by the engineers of the original derelict spacejockey, which Scott's film STILL hasn't answered or shown.

Ok boys, let's just sloooooooooooow this down a bit... FACT: The Company knew there was a "specimen" of some kind on the planet emitting the signal (can't recall if SO 937 mentions LV-426 by name; the signal, btw, has never been totally translated/deciphered to my knowledge/memory; for all we know it says that a ship full of xeno eggs is there and just one of 'em -- when fully grown -- can wipe out a good-sized crew in under 24 hours). FACT: Ash's orders were to bring it back for bio-weapons division (which INFERS at least one member of bio-weapons division said "Hell yes!" when asked if it would be interested in studying the alien possible mentioned in the above beacon warning) -- crew expendible. FACT: Events in Alien occur as we've seen. FACT: Ripley's story makes several high-level Company personnel look at her as if she's a psycho sci-fi writer (with a pen name of Lindy Loff), again INFERRING they collectively know nothing of what she's talking about; said story -- and said story alone -- inspires Burke to send terraformers out looking for derelict. Further, if The Company knew the derelict/alien were on LV-426 -- just not EXACTLY where -- then THEY would've sent a few teams of terraformers out to look for it. Now, as a member of management for a nearly 1,000-member "company" myself, I can assure you that (in the real world) it's far-fetched fantasy that NO ONE still working at or for The Company knows anything about SO 937, the xeno, the Nostromo, etc. I simply CANNOT achieve THAT amount of suspension of disbelief. Switching gears, yes Free Planet: eggs preceeded goo (at least in the films). Which leads me to believe that xenos have been around "forever," just like sharks on Earth. Now, if Germany had learned how to "manufacture" shark goo so it erradicated civilizations/populations it did not like, we might all be speaking German today.

@Red Wolf... First Fact: You must realize that although the signal may say that the specimen in question is deadly to the senders of the transmission, we would have no idea how deadly the specimen is to humans. Second Fact: According to a zillion year old transmission, there was a dangerous organism. The Company would still not know if such a creature was still around after all these years or if it were even viable. Third Fact: No indication that the Company had prior knowledge of there being a viable specimen. Fourth Fact: Backs up what I was saying. Final Point: Have you asked around the offices to see if there were any controversial dealings made by your company, past or present?

Herc: Why would SO 937 direct Ash to bring a specimen home for the bio-weapons division -- expending the entire crew if necessary -- if it was "unsure" of whether it was "deadly towards humans"? Several writers -- intelligent writers -- on this site will/would say that the SJ/Jugg may have only been on LV-426 for a MAXIMUM of 200-2200 years. While I don't typically quibble over facts/figures that may be approximate to begin with, 2200 is a FAR CRY from a "zillion." Your response to the 3rd fact is exactly what's puzzling me: how in the hell does NO ONE from The Company know about the "specimen" on LV-426!? While it's true that Ripley had floated in space for 57 years, Van Leuwen says that terraformers have been there "for years," which cuts down the 57-year figure. And while it's possible (if not likely) that only a few had knowledge of a project where a crew was deemed expendible, it is UNLIKELY that those in the know simply said, "Well, since we haven't heard from ANYONE on the Nostromo... I guess that's that."

which is why they established a colony there, in the hope of finding the derelict and gathering a specimen. or more. But because they were unsure were to look, and because of the moons atmosphere they were limited to where they could look. Remember that all the USCM were told was that contact with the colony had been lost. Yet, not was the colony fitted with CCTV (which was most likely transmitted via the network bac to the company - meaning they knew why contact had been lost), but the colonists had established a laboratory filled with at least a dozen Facehuggers, the examinations and results of which would no doubt have been transmitted back to the company "We've found Alien life". But the USCM, as in the crew of the USS Sulaco were told none of this.

[i]Why would SO 937 direct Ash to bring a specimen home for the bio-weapons division -- expending the entire crew if necessary -- if it was "unsure" of whether it was "deadly towards humans"?[/i] To emphasize how important such a creature would be, if found. Plain and simple: the Company knew that some critter wiped out another species. That sounds badass enough to want one for their own. By telling Ash that the crew is expendable is to emphasize how badly they want it. On the other side of the coin, if they did know what it was, wouldn't you think they'd take better precautions to obtain a specimen? [i]Several writers -- intelligent writers -- on this site will/would say that the SJ/Jugg may have only been on LV-426 for a MAXIMUM of 200-2200 years. While I don't typically quibble over facts/figures that may be approximate to begin with, 2200 is a FAR CRY from a "zillion."[/i] Forgive me for using a totally arbitrary number. Wanna correct my spelling errors, too? The point is that if the signal was anywhere from 200-2,200 years (per your writers), it would be less likely to find a viable specimen than if the signal went online a few days prior to discovery. [i]Your response to the 3rd fact is exactly what's puzzling me: how in the hell does NO ONE from The Company know about the "specimen" on LV-426!? While it's true that Ripley had floated in space for 57 years, Van Leuwen says that terraformers have been there "for years," which cuts down the 57-year figure.[/i] You're asking for negative proof. It doesn't work that way. Ask yourself this, that without speculation, does the Company by the time of [i]Aliens[/i] (and before Ripley's inquiry) actually know about the derelict, and how do they know? Plus, in an earlier post in this thread, I gave two examples of why the Company didn't pick up the derelict's transmission between the [i]Nostromo[/i]'s visit and the construction of Hadley's Hope. [i]And while it's possible (if not likely) that only a few had knowledge of a project where a crew was deemed expendible, it is UNLIKELY that those in the know simply said, "Well, since we haven't heard from ANYONE on the Nostromo... I guess that's that."[/i]You're right that is unlikely. They would be all too happy to find out what had happened to the [i]Nostromo[/i] and would be most cooperative with the ECA, ICC, OSHA, NTSB, and any other governmental body--but to a point. Remember, I mentioned earlier that a certain paper trail would be destroyed.

A request, if I may. Before anyone jumps in on this convo, please tell me this: If you set forth a plan that is illegal and unethical, would you really hang on to the smoking gun that would lead to your plot being exposed? If you answer "yes", please tell me why you would do this. I don't know about [i]you[/i], but if I launched something like that and it could come back to haunt me, I would do everything in my power to destroy all evidence of my wrongdoing.

The "rotten-to-the-core" Company is a mainstay in the Alien franchise, Herc. From Alien --> Aliens (at least after Burke hears Ripley's story and throught that movie) --> Alien 3 ("Bishop" appears at the end and tries to stop Ripley from killing herself & the queen xeno inside her; "Think of what we can learn from it, Ripley") --> Resurrection (I mean, how many "scientists" were involved in THAT!?) --> AvP (Weyland/Bishop/Henrikssen) --> Reqiuem (didn't know the Army has a Rotten Company) --> Prometheus (need I really explain it here?). Your assertion that The Company shredded all documents, killed all personnel involved and summarily disavowed any knowledge of the Nostromo is totally inconsistent with the ongoing storyline where The Company is concerned. Hell! They had more personnel involved in Resurrection than the bad guy in James Bond films! Money & Greed, my friend. As for your (hopefully rhetorical) questions: A. Not sure we disagree on the 1st point; The Co. indeed wants the specimen because -- while they don't KNOW FOR SURE that it will be deadly to humans -- anything that warning beacon speaks about is of paramount importance (i.e. Money/Greed) and The Co. was willing to let all Nostromo personnel die to get it. B. Better precautions? Dude, their plan worked perfectly -- except Ripley turned out to be one smart, tough Cookie (of course, in "Real life," she woulda died as well and Ash woulda brought home the xeno -- just like David would have been pummeled by Goliath). Though not much of a movie then, is it? C. OSHA? ECA? ICC? Dude, I'm not sure you're following this franchise... There are never any mentions of bona fide governmental agencies except for the Armed Forces. But on a lighter note, it'da been funny if Bill Clinton were in Prometh -- NO WAIT! -- no female Engineers.

Wolf: I've never doubted for a moment the corruptness of the Company, so I'm left wondering why you had posted that opener. Once again, there is no evidence that the Company between [i]Alien[/i] and [i]Aliens[/i] knew anything of Special Order 937. Restating something that lacks proof does not establish proof. You keep failing to acknowledge that what the Company does in [i]Aliens[/i] and [i]Alien³[/i] was based on Carter J. Burke's taking initiative. [i]Your assertion that The Company shredded all documents, killed all personnel involved and summarily disavowed any knowledge of the Nostromo is totally inconsistent with the ongoing storyline where The Company is concerned.[/i] I didn't say that they killed all personnel, I gave examples as to why those behind SO 937 wouldn't be with the Company 57 years later. Not only did you misrepresent what I had said, you hadn't brought forth anything that says that the Company knew about it 57 years later and acted upon it. From what is actually shown, they acted on Burke's hunch. [i]Better precautions? Dude, their plan worked perfectly -- except Ripley turned out to be one smart, tough Cookie (of course, in "Real life," she woulda died as well and Ash woulda brought home the xeno -- just like David would have been pummeled by Goliath). Though not much of a movie then, is it?[/i] If it worked so perfectly, except for that meddling warrant officer, why didn't they get the alien? Again, if I wanted something that was supposedly dangerous I would send out something more substantial than just some tug jockeys. [i]OSHA? ECA? ICC? Dude, I'm not sure you're following this franchise... There are never any mentions of bona fide governmental agencies except for the Armed Forces. But on a lighter note, it'da been funny if Bill Clinton were in Prometh -- NO WAIT! -- no female Engineers.[/i] By mentioning OSHA, I was just trying to inject a little realism into this discussion via a contemporary reference. As for my not following the franchise, I've been following it since the summer of 1978. Since then, I've been exposed to quite a few materials. There is mention of the Extrasolar Colonization Administration (the androgynous lady who describes LV-426 as "a rock" was an ECA rep) and there is also mention of the Interstellar Commerce Commission (Van Leeuwen is an ICC rep.). I'd say I've been following this franchise pretty closely. ;)

[i]OK, ya got me: one 2-minute scene in six films where two actors with a total of 2-3 lines who represent futuristic govermental agencies... I can't believe I forgot about them.[/i] Ha! ;) [i]Listen, all I'm saying is that it's a bona fide plot hole -- I M O -- that The Company "knows nothing" about the xenos when Ripley awakens.[/i] But it's not. I already explained how it was possible. Just because you're hanging onto a cherished belief doesn't make it bona fide. [i]YOUR reply that (paraphrasing) "It's common sense, Red Wolf: all those associated with SO 937 are dead or gone from The Company" doesn't wash with me. No right; no wrong. Just my opinion.[/i] Let's see. SO 937 was most likely put together by mid- to upper-level managers. These would be people in their late 20s or older. But let's err on the younger margin, shall we? If these people average 27 years old in age, in 57 years they would be [i]84 years old[/i] upon Ripley's return, that is if they didn't die from accidents, disease, natural causes, and other things people die from. Upon hitting 84 candles on their cakes, I seriously doubt they would be burning the midnight oil at Weyland Yutani, but would be wearing tanning oil on some beach. I don't know about [i]you[/i], but [i]I[/i] plan to retire by or before my 65th birthday. [i]And to your point that the lack of a Colonial Marine unit being sent to LV-426 means that The Co. was unsure of what it had out there (or that the xeno may no longer exist), I believe they merely sent the closest ship to investigate.[/i] I made no such point. [i]Since no one ever heard back from the crew of the Nostromo, I woulda thought that a money-hungry Company woulda taken that as a sign that the xeno was most definitely alive and sent a Marine "rescue mission" out there ASAP rather than letting things go.[/i] The less attention, the better. For all we know, they might have been contacted by governmental agencies and gave them all the available information about the [i]Nostromo[/i]'s flight plan; "available" meaning "non-incriminating" and "still-existing".

@ Hercules and Red Wolf Guys, just to get back on track, as the thread was posted on the Talk P-2 section, if we assume that the company knew exactly what was on LV-426, in your view HOW did the company know about the Xenomorph on LV-426 prior to releasing the SO 937? So far we have the following views: - Someone from the company or linked to the company visited the site between the events of Shaw and David leaving LV-223 and the Nostromo mission to collect mineral ore etc .... - Hologram transmitted from SJ of derelict to another Engineer ship (Snorkel story) - The Company intercepted from base and subsequently understood / deciphered the warning signal from the derelict (one of the David 8's from base, David himself whilst travelling with Shaw or possibly even Ash as far as we know?) any other ideas?

How the company finds out about the warning beacon on LV-426 is a mistery. Not much of a mystery. In the novelization of Alien, Ripley guessed that either a Company probe or an off-course ship might have picked up the signal. Granted, that explanation isn't definite, but it still works. ----------------------- I have always believed that the Nostromo intercepted the signal first. In Alien 3, the android "Bishop" reveals that the company knows any information processed in the ship's computers: FEMALE VOICE (OS) Fire in cryogenic compartment. Repeat. Fire in cryogenic compartment. All personnel report to -- RIPLEY What started the fire, Bishop? (no response) Can you hear me? BISHOP The fire was electrical. It was in the subflooring... RIPLEY Did sensors detect any moving life forms on the ship prior to separation? BISHOP It's very dark here, Ripley. I'm not what I used to be. RIPLEY Just tell me - does the recorder indicate anything? Was there an Alien on board? An eternity. 26/l/91 W.H., D.G. 39. 53 CONT 53CONT BISHOP Yes . RIPLEY Is it still on the Sulaco or did it come with us on the EEV? BISHOP It was with us all the way. RIPLEY Does the company know? BISHOP The company knows everything that happened on the ship. It all goes into the computer and gets sent back to the network. RIPLEY And they want it? BISHOP I don't know. I'm not feeling very well. etc. etc. .... (taken from: http://sfy.ru/?script=alien3_hill) In the 1979 "Alien" I think sometime after Kane gets infected, Ash reports to the Company or is secretly contacted by the company and given Special Order 937 (crew expendable). I don't think Ash was planted on board to betray the crew from the beginning. I think the Company gave him the order to save the Alien at all costs after Kane was infected.

@ GoblinShark Your theory does make sense and I have never thought about that. It stacks up as Dallas selects "Interface 2037" when investigating Mother's notification (not SO 937) after breakfast .... However, the fact the Ash was replaced at the last minute on the ship prior to departure does raise suspicion. Also, he overules Ripley (more senior to him) twice before the alien is brought on board ... 1) Rejecting her request of going after Kane, Dallas and Lambert when she suspects the signal is a warning and 2) opening the inner hatch manually overriding Ripley's order to keep Kane outside in Quarantine .... surely the company wouln't have known so quickly and released SO 937 from when Ash sees them outside to when he opens the inner hatch? Maybe it can be argued that the Company knew of the signal and wanted to plant an artificial person on board in the event further instruction was needed and programmed Ash to fully investigate any sign of intelligent life in advance ...

@Eggs or something >: "Maybe it can be argued that the Company knew of the signal and wanted to plant an artificial person on board in the event further instruction was needed and programmed Ash to fully investigate any sign of intelligent life in advance ..." You bring up some good points as well. Particularly the fact that Ash was swapped-into the crew roster at the last minute. "The Company" was playing chess, not checkers. They wanted a game piece in place that they could control and command. I guess where I get fuzzy is the fact that Ash did not go with the team in the first place. Supposedly he was "monitoring their channel", but Ripley could have handled that. Ash being the science officer, you'd think his role on the ship as well as natural curiosity would have made him a better candidate for the Team's third member rather than Lambert. But I guess where I was heading with this was if SO 937 was given to Ash early on, then why would he sit on the sidelines while the crew investigated the derelict? He had no idea if Kane or anyone else on the exploration Team would actually get infected. It is entirely feasible that all 3 could have returned without having encountered any facehuggers. Perhaps Ash would have taken stronger measures at that point, like commandeering the crew and forcing one of them to get impregnated. For our review, here is SO 937: "Priority one Insure return of organism for analysis. All other considerations secondary. Crew expendable." Chilling, but it reveals nothing about how much the company knew about this organism when they gave the order. It seems like a RESPONSE to me as well. In other words, I think it went something like this: Science Officer Ash Communication, Priority One, Encrypt "Kane returned with organism attached to his face. Organism appears to have embedded some sort of embryo. Embryo growing at phenomenal rate...please advise..." To which the company responds: "Priority one Insure return of organism for analysis. All other considerations secondary. Crew expendable." Your thoughts?