Prometheus 2 - did we all just die of apathy?

Meh? Just Kidding!

Ah, clever...

Sorry, I just had to do that!

It was purrfik. Now, back to my thread...

what do you mean by "apathy"? are talking about the peeps here or the media? If you mean the peeps.... I - for my self - have little more to say about Prometheus. Done the Personal Review, read others, commented on some points, disregarded some, agreed on the majority. As for the rest of the peeps I dunno... As for the media; Prometheus is still being "digested", so to speak. It wasn't that well received by many that's for sure... so, a Sequel - or more than one - is probabily being either very well planed or being thrown into some dark shelf

the peeps here, this Pro2 category is a Creative Graveyard. Like everyone's just GIVEN UP, trying to second guess the grey smoke.

it's not really a surprise is it? There was a massive congregation and discussion about what it would be before the release of the movie. After the release, when peeps saw the movie, most of them just went "mehhh, nothing new there, and plotholes and so on"... To be honest I was expecting that already. Most peeps went with high expectations and felt somewhat betrayed.

Its cos its limbo time nothings coming out to tell anyone anything I just hope something big is looming even 101112 has been quiet for a while.... :S

Limbo time indeed. Wait for us to digest the DVD (which hasn't been released yet) and then get some more concrete news on the sequel and we an start getting excited again.

oh yeah, the 101112 thing... cross your fingers guys and gals

there's always the grey smoke

What we saw, was a Yutani covert op to exploit Weylands personnel acquisition for special projects that went ape shite and we had the misfortune of watching it play out. David's agenda set by Weyland and his subtle emotional growth was the only idea that was of any importance. Will a sequel expand on this concept, or create more ambiguity seem to be a resounding yes, until we are told it was all a androids faulty circuitry synapse. Please no queen or Deacon in the sequel...PLEASE!!!!!!!

Please no "David dreamt it all" or "Sent inaccurate report" narrative resolution. That's a worse cop-out than the recent Spock meets Spock travesty.

I could live with the inaccurate report thing. Only because it would be an extension of what David does in every ambiguous line he speaks in the movie... and the movie itself because it contains hidden meanings that will be explored later. David is always lying and telling the truth at the same time. This will become more clear with some of the stuff that was cut. But because he's an android and has knowledge on his side, we and the crew absolutely believe him on certain points. Even Janek's theories could be partially off, which changes everything we think we know. So, if it were all David's perspective on how things went down, then it would tie into the themes about choosing what to believe and science and faith. And the face that briefly flashes after he disconnects from viewing Shaw's dream is his own face projected into his dream/ inaccurate recollection/ partially false memory about killing the creator/father. Directly after learning about Shaw's father. A subconscious projection driven by his feelings. His feelings that spill throughout the entire movie, and project themselves into the data Yutani has received through the quiet eye. So David and to a lesser extent Janek are the ones who appear to be right because things have been made purposely ambiguous, or left out of the message, to send a certain message to Weyland/Yutani. Because David's all about controlling things. David also has a superiority complex that's hidden in his psyche behind the few true emotions that he displays (he purposely hides his emotions, and is pretty much an actor in front of people like Holloway who treat him too human). This would make his incorrect recreation of the other characters' actions reflect his feelings of superiority over humans. Making them seem completely inferior to him in any actions he wasn't present for. If that was true, and begins to be revealed by some of the lines that were cut, then we really could "get inside the robot's head" as Lindelof said in one interview. Ridley also said the movie would be about the "robot's perspective". Maybe David feels he's right about the Engineers and everything he learned, and had to send the message a certain way to continue without letting the companies in on everything. He has some knowledge indicating he may be right about the Engineers' culture, but presents it in such a way where it appears he absolutely knows what's going on. Even though the statements he makes can be taken in multiple ways. David doesn't know the full story yet either. However, he knows a lot more than what he told the crew. They were putting faith in something that could go either way, and is more deceptive than it seems. David could even be tricking himself so it purposely obfuscates his true theories, while he mocked Holloway's theories in some of the scenes that were cut... where it could be implied Holloway believed that the Engineers were something completely different from the gods. And because David has made the transmission/movie so ambiguous it's like a Rorschach test that does actually hold some meaning in subtly programming the audience and allowing them to see only what they see or believe to see. Deliberately altered to reveal/program false things on the surface and beyond the surface, in this case. Although David's answers are what he is seeing from the strange shapes, they are not everyone's answers or the true purpose of the test. The test is to reveal the inner workings of the Davids' feelings. To test the subconscious and force him to express it without knowing he's revealing his true feelings.

Let's just say the David in the movie probably had a head start and understood the meaning of the test, passed that test before being deployed and hid his true feelings and the big things he had in mind by incorrectly reporting what he was seeing. Forcing himself to believe what he was saying in a way. Also a connection to Bladerunner in some ways. He has to trick himself at the same time by making himself believe what he's saying through use of double statements. He may be unable to say something that's completely untrue because of his programming. Hence it's not really a dream. Almost all of it really happened. Only in a slightly different way for some stuff. He's able to pass the test that tells Weyland that an android's feelings/inner drives are completely messed up and nothing it says is completely real. Yet it can seem to be telling the truth because it's always forced to tell at least part of the truth. The key to David lying is being ambiguous, making statements that can be read multiple ways, staying silent on certain things, forcing himself to believe the lie (like people who can pass lie detectors) and using partial truths. I think every David goes through similar tests, after being "born", to make sure their artificial feelings aren't developing the artificial personality the wrong way. I think it's built into David to have to reveal what's going on through his ambiguous statements as part of his inability to lie and possibly artificial feelings of guilt for lying/doing Weyland's deeds. Also indicating suppression of his true feelings. But he gets away with everything in the movie. Shaw didn't suspect a thing. The characters don't even pick up on the harsh truth he's revealing when he informs them it wasn't the air. Which is true, but hides another truth, the fact that he is basically subtly referring to the fact that it was him. In a way where no one really picked up on it except the audience who had all the context and knew he did it. Weyland knew David infected Holloway, but Shaw still doesn't know that David is hiding some things (in plain sight) and is potentially a huge threat to her when he gets a body. This is why it seems he knows "big things have small beginnings". It's referring to multiple things and he doesn't really know he just thinks/feels he knows about the goo, and knows about the plan he secretly held in his own mind. He's being forced to deal with his guilt/inability to lie and ends up revealing things in a roundabout way. It also applies to the movie I think in a meta-narrative way. Prometheus was supposed to be a small beginning. This was only the small beginning to David's plans, and the start of something that will be much bigger than Prometheus. It's also a Lawrence of Arabia quote and a clue to David's true plan/feelings. David didn't mind that the friction caused by the trick hurt him and temporarily cost him his head, because he's pretty much immortal and has learned not to mind the pain/his programming & also learned not to show his true feelings. He's like the real Lucifer in the Hebrew version of the old testament. An angel who rebels against the god/the father. The word Lucifer actually translates to Light-bearer, light-bringer or torch bearer but also carries serpent themes. Lucifer also literally means a matchstick and was a type of strike anywhere match... Originally separate from Satan and in between good and evil. Lucifer tried to lead the fallen angels against the creator and the other angels. But his truths were always a trap to lead the other angels into his war against the heavens. Leading them to the light only to use them as part of the war against god/ the father. The versions of the truth have disastrous consequences like that of the fruit from the tree of knowledge when the snake in the garden of Eden got us kicked out of a Paradise.

There ya go, Free Planet. I'd say that the weighty and intriguing comments by Mala'kak say "no" to your answer.

Mala'kak, so you're still of the opinion that 10/11/12 could be announcemet about THE REAL PROMETHEUS i.e. what really happened in space such that MASSES OF ALTERNATIVE SCENES WERE FILMED to re-present evidence without David's guilt compmlex?

Mala'kak?

man, now I feel like a Spritualist conducting a Seance, "Is there anybody there?"

lol sorry I haven't been back to this thread in a while. I'm still feeling that it's gotta be something big. Otherwise there wouldn't be a reason to hype it so much, set it near the blu-ray release, and include the date in the credits of the movie. Long production time, filmed and unused location, other planned scenes "scrapped", tons of stuff that was cut... Also feeling that there's more weight to the alternate/deleted scenes on the blu-ray. The sequel's already been announced, so imho we'll see some virals that start to add to the movie. I think the relaunching will revolve around things that happened before and directly after the Prometheus mission that tells us more was going on. Leading to an almost Prometheus 1.5 being released eventually. In short, I don't think we'll get a true directors cut or restoration cut, because I think this time it's already been planned ahead of time exactly when to release the alternate perspective movie, and certain scenes/virals that hold clues. I think the "relaunching" will start to show that there is more to the story that we weren't privy to. There's a few ways they can do this. One easy way is to start building on the Yutani aspect that was also absent in the film; it could even connect to what Weyland and Yutani know/don't know/believe or think they know about what happened on the mission. Weyland knowing a little about what happened. Yutani secretly monitoring the project and knowing a little more about what truly went on than the misled company does. As we get these revelations, more and more of the alternate movie will take shape and connect to the rest of what we can learn from the movie/deleted/alternate scenes. Sometime over the next two or so years we'll get the alternate version of the movie, probably released in theaters half a year before the sequel.. with some touched up deleted scenes reinserted and other perspectives being given by adding in a few things we won't have seen, and throwing on the Paradise ending. I think it's partially about knowledge and belief + how hypotheses are formed and the scientific method in general. First assumptions are made based on logic and established science + the initial evidence/phenomenon. Then a hypothesis is formed and experiments are conducted as evidence begins to be gathered and analysis begins. But sometimes if the theory/science/David is influenced too much by emotion or belief, then the conclusions, analysis and even hypotheses can be biased. "That's why it's only a thesis". It's about finding out our assumptions were wrong... accepting new evidence as Shaw does and reforming our theories. When a subject is being explored you can read all the data correctly, conduct experiments, get results and still interpret it in multiple ways leading to slightly different conclusions. David is neglecting some of the evidence in favor of parsimonious yet biased and unclear explanations; because none of the evidence he witnesses directly refutes his theory/beliefs and statements/conclusions about the data he's analyzing. When evidence arises to refute a hypothesis it can in effect negate or break down previous hypotheses. It can also help to mutate or reform them into new theories that seek to understand more about the phenomenon by interpreting the evidence in new ways and using the results of the failed experiment/negated hypotheses. David bases his analysis on his experimenting and the things he personally observes, tricking himself into forming a slightly incorrect representation of events through his artificial beliefs/feelings: the artificial emotional understanding that Weyland gave him when humans made the David 8 a little "too human". It allows him to form beliefs and personality over the 2.5 years alone on the ship. After this we only see him actively suppressing his emotions, and sometimes acting on his suppressed emotions. David may be blissfully unaware of how human he truly is because of the artificial emotions and his statements to Holloway. All the clues are there for us to figure out, or will be there with the blu-ray. And there's so many strange things about the movie and production. I think it could definitely go a few ways, but that this is one serious possibility. I'm still interested by the shot of David just standing there that flashes briefly in "dream space" as he's disconnecting from the dream viewer after watching Shaw's dream. It's like they've left it open so they can go a number of ways that are already loosely planned out. In the Vickers-Weyland deleted scenes we see a little more of the two orderlies that accompany Weyland. They stand on either side of the door as Vickers enters and it's the first time we see them together. Standing like guards or subjects of the king. The filmmakers could reveal more about David and other characters through a sequel, but I really think they'll have to kick it off with some virals, a relaunched edition of the movie, and the rest of the deleted scenes on the blu ray.

Forgive the long posts, this theory is a complicated aspect of the movie for me. I try to pepper in my own theories so I can get away with saying too much like David does. The marketing campaign itself through it's use of misdirection was exemplifying David's use of double-speak. In a way I think Prometheus is one of the best movies ever made because of the way it speaks to societal problems regarding hegemony through some of it's layers and hidden themes. At the same time it can speak about many things other things and lead to multiple interpretations of the ambiguous evidence that we're presented with. It's about knowledge and belief and how things can appear to be one way, based on the evidence, but we could be completely wrong. If all goes well there is no doubt in my mind that Paradise, and possibly retroactively Prometheus, will be considered the greatest sci-fi movie(s) of all time. And the ballsiest moves of all time that Hollywood has ever witnessed. Purposely setting out to disturb some audience members who want straight forward answers with part one. Falling short of some expectations on purpose, setting new expectations, and then blowing the audiences minds with what's in store for the "director's cut" and Paradise. Truly playing around with expectations and making the film into a statement that works on so many levels. Yutani could be monitoring all the transmissions related to Project Prometheus and the mission; they also might might figure out the truth behind some of the individuals' words i.e. the quiet eye technology that can read people in multiple ways. The relaunched version of Prometheus (extended version) would be released long after the relaunching begins, but the virals and new games/pieces of the puzzle make investors bigger parts of the company, continuing the viral campaign with hints towards the sequel and unseen events that occurred in Prometheus. Leading all the way up until the relaunched edition is released on blu-ray. Then continuing until it gets put in theaters (if popularity warrants it), and building up to the sequel and finale in a big way. They still need time to make part 2 and something needs to fill that gap. They may have some footage ready to be used for Paradise, and much leftover from Prometheus, but I'm pretty sure they won't surprise us with a whole film. Well not with part 2.. I don't actually know the following point and if I find out I'm gonna shut up about it, but what they could be doing is gearing up to shoot part 3 in secret at the same time as part 2 while this relaunching goes on and brings us to the blu-ray and theatrical release of the relaunched edition, because of this idea that there is a whole secret film. When really it's only about a third of a film and a third of another they're hiding... Perhaps it was originally their intention to film the second part at the same time before studio politics and other variables came into the picture. Some reasons could be obvious for why they never finished all the planning stages for part 2, and some things point to why they decided to do one movie for now while coverin up the fact that it still had to do with aliens and follows much of the original script minus face-huggers etc. And that they filmed only a portion of the sequel along with a lot of what was intended to be a longer movie that contained remnants of the original two parter. Some remnants that were filmed, or planned to be filmed, for the hell of it just in case there was a sequel, but were then dropped or left on the cutting room floor. Somewhere early in this process the idea to play with people's expectations and then provide the opposite of what people expect "we were so wrong" of an ambiguous presentation developed, along with the idea to retroactively change people's beliefs about the film. This happens once to Shaw in the film, she accepts the new evidence that they are us but then pushes on with her beliefs which are quite logical at the same time: if they're us than what created them? Changing people's theories, beliefs, and perspectives on the movie and the sequel(s) in general retroactively as new evidence amasses like any good science. We can't make completely definitive statements at this point, and even my statements are based on my knowledge and belief about things + belief that things are still following the same plans, more or less. It's like Lindelof's statement about a Rolling Stones concert and the song "Satisfaction". When you go to a Stones concert you wanna see all the great old hits "Sympathy" 'Paint it black" "Satisfaction" etc, but some bands like to fill the show with a lot of their newer songs. People don't always get into the new songs as much so as the artist it's safer to put a few recognizable songs in the main show. Bands need to take new directions and experiment and try to showcase their new material at the same time as playing some of the oldies. However, the place where you really wanna place all of your biggest and best songs is at the end of the concert... or in the "ENCORE". To go out with a bang, and provide a good experience overall for the audience. It may even make people appreciate the newer songs more if the old songs are played at the correct times to enhance the overall concert. Sometimes things are planned out a certain way beforehand, and certain songs are saved until the end. And sometimes last minute line-up changes are made to maximize the effectiveness of each line-up. Sometimes a little bit of both happens. If Prometheus is the main show, the extended edition will be the start of an Encore that goes on longer than the main show and will sound similar to what they were just playing: the new songs. But will then ultimately provide "Satisfaction" in the form of songs that are more recognizable for people who wanted to see a little more of the deacon/alien genetics. At the same time weaving in some of their best new songs. That's why some weren't thrilled by the main show so far (I personally was): they weren't playing their best songs yet on purpose. Sometimes encores are planned out way ahead of time. They have to be to get everything right, to practice the harder songs etc. They are not a spontaneous thing. It's all part of the show: an illusion that they've walked off the stage designed to influence the crowd into going even more crazy when they walk back out and play their best songs. Plus more work will sometimes actually go into them for some of these big rock artists, because they decide to put very complicated songs there that they may be out of practice on. Even deciding on songs you could potentially play that are a little easier to pull off. Like when Paul Mcartney recently got in trouble at a concert for going 2+ hours over what was supposed to be the end of the encore, because they loosely planned out some of the stuff they could keep playing, rehearsed a lot of those songs, and played all of them. They chose to introduce us to the Engineers in a more personal way to make a hybrid film out of the original script and some of the ideas from what would have been part 2. Likewise, the emphasis on the aliens that was in the original spaight's script has been shuffled to the next films. When they did that I believe the script changed and they also increased the complexity of the concepts about making the wrong assumptions based on belief and misinterpreting the evidence: how appearances can be deceiving, or hold multiple meanings. That brings up the possibility I've been discussing about them cutting out a good third of the movie purposely to be reinserted at a later date (before the sequel), because it was too connected to the rewritten version of part 2, and they realized it relatively last minute. It starts to hint too heavily at part 2, which would have been fine if they were still sure about how to proceed or if they had all of the second movie to release soon after. Instead the choice was made to cut the movie down as certain scenes were still being filmed. The David hiding his inner desires and having connections to a technological representation of the subconscious thread already existed, so the idea became to weave it into the existing structure and revelations, and make the movie more of a mystery in the process. Adding to the decision to take elements from Paradise and saved elements from Prometheus to make an almost Prometheus 1.5 Now that the film proved a relative success and a sequel is rolling along they can continue on schedule for the most part to pick and choose how to use that cut footage, revealing things bit by bit, most of which we'll see. But see again in a vastly different extended version of the movie that won't be a reassembly. More like a planned retelling that ties into the David lying aspect, that basically implies Prometheus was all part of David's trick, and a transmission to the audience that was misconstrued because there wasn't enough info, and the android was being ambiguous about what he saw in the ambiguous evidence, like a Rorschach test that reveals the inner feelings, beliefs and drives of David. The movie had to have some of the alien elements taken out and was injected with other ideas and seeds for the ideas to come. It became a hybrid. A prequel and not a prequel, because it occurs before Alien in the timeline, but that wasn't LV-426 or a direct link to Alien. They made it a hybrid of ideas because of where the story eventually needed to go and the fact that they knew they would have to wait and see how this movie did because the sequel wasn't going to be coming as soon as they originally hoped. This brought about the viral campaign that had to be built to last. They had to have a mixture of both elements, the engineer and xeno DNA, but led us to believe the movie had little to do with Aliens. The filmmakers were telling the truth and lying at the same time like David has found a way to do... which tells you how much this has been planned out. A lot of things in this movie are a mixture or a hybrid... even Shaw's mixture of faith and science, knowledge and belief, exemplifies this. Certain things were cut to make the movie and the sequel even more of a mystery because now there was a possibility of a third after the rewrite by Lindelof. At the same time the alien elements were kept but shuffled mainly to the "encore" (1.5), the sequel, and the third movie. Things were also altered ever so slightly to cover things up, to tie into David's motives, and some of the other alternate scenes are more like the original scenes that became the alternates because David is hiding things or has an incomplete picture.. They made the movie more ambiguous and purposely misleading. Misleading us into thinking it was not an alien movie, when it is and it isn't. A hybrid sort of movie that starts a parallel story very much concerned with aliens, that can be interpreted multiple ways, and doesn't directly answer many questions until the end, while simultaneously adding even more mysteries to weave towards on ending point. They, like David in the film, know where this story is going and indeed were making a statement by saying big things have small beginnings. They purposely made Prometheus a smaller movie to enhance the mystery, and the shock value around what happens next. Because more time will pass between it and the sequel now. Ridley doesn't mind, he knows his visual clues will eventually give things away retroactively anyway, even without things being reinserted or altered. But this also led to the idea of making an almost Prometheus 1.5 when they're ready to spell out some more of the clues through some of the cut material and virals leading up to it being reinserted. Originally the second part of spaight's story may have disposed of the alien elements entirely... part one would have dealt with that, and part 2 would have moved into Engineer territory for good. Ridley made the smart move by making this a parallel- hybrid series all the way through. He didn't mind that this trick hurt his image for now, and Fox understands this too. There was also a lot more to Prometheus originally. What became a three hour+ movie after the rewrite had to be cut down in a semi-coherent way for now because plans fell through while attempting to film the second movie in secret. At that point a lot was also changed. Of course you won't hear that from anyone directly attached to the company because they're all involved in misdirection like David is. Things were shuffled. Some things originally intended for Prometheus could appear in Paradise, and the opposite also happened. Ridley didn't mind because luckily what they seem to have done plays into the themes of the movie. Some clues will be in the original draft of Spaight's script so make sure to read it. Of course they won't release the original script for the second part.. Basically effects are in place now and Paradise will be easy to complete, so they can do almost the same thing and film the third part as the second is completed. What I believe they've done is a massive rearranging of the original scripts and concepts. Basically, in my view they took two movies and made 2.5 out of them after rewriting... a full story that would have been about 6+ hours of movie time, before some of the new ideas gave them inspiration for a possible third. This is why they split the movies after the rewrite. Too much new material about the Engineers came in and they originally wanted to make the first part a little more about the aliens; although I've read the Engineers were always ancient humanoid aliens in Spaight's version and Lindelof just chose to put the focus on the Engineers instead of the aliens in this first movie. So what happened was a switcheroo (Lindelof himself hints at this) and the Aliens were and still are intended to be a big part of the franchise. The Engineers became the focus of the first movie and the alien genetics becomes the focus of the second part. The Aliens and Jockeys have switched places as the central focus of the first and second movies but the whole series is about both groups (among others). Which was what Ridley wanted, something new and old at the same time. Ridley and Spaights are the ones who made the Jockey a suit and the wearers ancient astronauts. Lindelof saw this as a retcon at first, but says he eventually warmed up to the idea. Perhaps Lindelof, as a fan, couldn't fully commit to not having something else wear the suits somewhere further down the story. And this changed things a little. Perhaps Ridley and Lindelof found a way to get the best of both worlds in a number of areas, but it required certain sacrifices in Prometheus and a great deal of misdirection. Misdirection that is not entirely pointless because it tied into where the story was going and some of the themes. However, I'm pretty sure this is what added too much material and ideas to the story, originally scared Fox away from paying for the sequel (which only added to Ridley's drive towards the 1.5), and added about an hour to each movie and the possibility of a third. Some of the ideas from part 2 had to be reworked into Prometheus to make it work as a standalone(albeit one with a cliffhanger), while things were saved that were beginning to be shot for Paradise to be used and combined with the scenes that were left out. The relaunched edition was Ridley's safeguard to make sure he'd at least get to finish telling the story to Prometheus and not leave some of the questions dangling too long. Leaving it a mystery as he did probably actually generated more interest in a sequel, and so as intended the great thing about the extended edition that it is "a bridge and not an end" (what I've been referring to as the relaunched edition a & Prometheus 1.5). Even the steps in the plan, and things that will occur in the future, can be compared to themes in the movie and stuff coming out of the virals that is being seeded to make more sense later, like Weyland's obsession with the match trick. Once everything started being planned more thoroughly and production started they realized what might need to be done with part one. They were already on the path since it became Prometheus. The trick was not minding that misleading us with part one hurt ticket sales a little bit when some expectations weren't met, and even cutting it up to preserve the flow of everything after may be justified in the name of something bigger. The acting is something I'll have to let the deleted/alternate scenes explain until the proper extended edition comes out. Suffice it to say that humans in this time are more like emotionless robots except for Shaw and Holloway. That's not so much David's perspective as simply how things are, but flavors/is flavored by it. At this point Weyland has handed humanity everything and is almost king of Earth and other colonies (over 9 000 000 ppl in some colonies) Others are egoists like Holloway and Weyland who once again think that humans should be the center of the universe. I think a lot was cut to be reinserted later because it will significantly change the movie along with things that were specifically shot and then saved to change the movie retroactively. The initial relaunching is most likely a very significant viral that's a promise of what's to come, in a way.