Alien Movie Universe

1979 Alien Concept to Evolution

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BigDave

MemberDeaconApr-13-2012 10:45 AM
How do you guys all feel regarding the Story of Alien and how it ended? Do you feel that Aliens was not a legitimate sequel? Lets look at how Alien was actually shown as a movie.... We get the crew of Nostromo come across a becon they go investigate LV426 and find the Derelict ship with its Pilot with his chest burst open. (The movie does not explain who or what he is or what the ships purpose was, Ridley latter hints its a guy in a Suit who is Pilot of a Ship carrying a Cargo of Bio Weapons). The crew come across a chamber containing Eggs (some may not agree) these Eggs contain a Organism the Face Hugger which then inplants a Embrio into a Host, this embrio Grows inside the host and then it breaks free (Chest Burster) then it grows into the Xeno. The Xeno is a creature that then hunts down and kills the crew. Thats how Alien went, now with Eggs when we look at Eggs in Nature they are layed, either by a Female, or Queen or even in some cases a creature can reproduce Parthenogenicly meaning no need for male/seed/sperm etc. This idea could mean the Xeno could lay its own Eggs that grow, or they could go with what Aliens did in that some become Queens who reproduce via Parthenogenesis. As in Alien it never expained it otherwise.... This was mainly accepted by the Franchise all the way to Alien 3 etc. ----------------------------------------------------------- However if we take the full Alien movie and look at the deleted scene, then indeed the Xeno is seen in a different light. If that scene was included in the movie and accepted as part of the story then it would show that the Xeno is not some mindless killer, not some Organism with one purpose. It would apear it is a Organism that thrives to survive, a Organism that would not just wipe out a Planet, but actually change the lifeforms on the Planet to become itself, this is how it would seem that Organism reproduces. --------------------------------------------------------------- Now looking at the Orginal Script there are no Eggs as per say, but what seems to descripe Urns that contain a Organism simular to what we see in Prometheus only more Leathery in apearence than Ceramic. This concept seems to imply that the Organism does not lay a Embrio but indeed its somehow changes the DNA of its Victim. This Organism is described as being Squid/Octopus in description. (And thus maybe different to Gigers Art Work that inspired the Aliens in the Franchise). Looking at the inclusion of a Temple that housed this Urns, and that the ship was seperate and thus maybe not house these Urns (but they could be carried on as cargo). A lot points to Ridley going with Prometheus back to the Organism idea and the orginal opening plot of the Orginal Alien Script... Maybe he will also explore the way in the deleted scene that the Xeno seemed to create its Eggs from using a Cacooned Hosts DNA. Now Ridley could go that route and link Alien which could be like a reboot and distance itself from the Orginal Alien Xeno, or maybe change the perseption of the Xeno to be nothing like or ever be like it was in Aliens. Ridley would be silly to do that as it would split and kind of throw out the Idea of Aliens and Alien 3 to not have nothing to do with Alien. What a clever Ridley could do, is use the idea behind the Orginal Alien Script and the Deleted Scene process to create a new Organism totally different yet simular to the Xeno in DNA. Which this new different Organism can then lead to its own Franchise. But somewhere he would have to tie in Alien so as to give the Franchise closure as far as the Eggs and Xeno was... This could be explained via a freak acident of the new Organism causing a Hybrid that becomes the Proto Xeno, while then having the other Organisms become their own. Bit like if you say Dinosaurs Evolved into Birds and thats covered by Alien, but also some Dinosaurs evolved into Reptiles which gives a new direction. Thus you descripe how Birds came to be, but then also from that point you can explore Reptiles and never have to touch upon Birds again as they already been covered (Alien/Aliens) and thus can make a Part 2 movie to explore Reptiles as your original movie about Dinosaurs ties in the Birds and allows you to create a new franchise based on Reptiles. Funny Analogy but i hope you get what i mean.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

17 Replies

Gavin

MemberTrilobiteApr-13-2012 11:38 AM
The way I look at it is much simple, less complex and easier to understand... The Drone Xenomorph aboard the Nostromo was alone with no cennection to a Queen, the governing force of a Hive, and the top dog of the Xenomorph heirachy. Therefore The lone Drone cocooned Dallas as a host, but infected Brett with some type of virus that re-constituted his DNA, morphing him into an egg. An egg that would incubate a Royal Facehugger (see Alien 3) that once fully formed would've hatched, using Dallas as the host for a new Queen. The Xenomorph is perfectly engineered to do two things... 1. To eradicate any indigenous lifeforms while propagating its own kind. 2. To survive. And to do both effectively the Queen is necessary, therefore the above idea allows the Xenomorph to continue its purpose.

Keefus

MemberOvomorphApr-13-2012 11:42 AM
Snorkelbottom Is definitely Correct on this tbh, it shores up the universe really. lots of posts and ideas have been around this, and i think its best idea to save face for all alien fans :)

Jim100a100

MemberOvomorphApr-13-2012 11:45 AM
pretty sure Dallas has the same kind of egg tansformation going. you can clearly see the "petals" forming below him. Brett's is further along. The queen was an ALIENS concept

Necrofan

MemberOvomorphApr-13-2012 11:51 AM
I always understood it to be James Cameron, in Aliens, that made the direct connection to the Alien with the life cycle of an insect. I think RS imagined something far more foreign, hard to understand and, well alien than just a big insect.

BigDave

MemberDeaconApr-13-2012 11:55 AM
Cheers for reply... I guess my point was to see how people view the Evolution of the Xeno in Alien to the ones in Aliens and thus Queen etc, or would they prefer the cycle and idea of the deleted scene and ideas in the Orginal Script. I am sure Ridley can explore and use the ideas in the orginal script for a new Organism that comes from the base Organism, that would be based around the ideas in the Orginal Script and that may change its host as the Xeno in Alien seemed to do in that deleted scene. Thus give us a new Creature to xplore and thus not have to sabotage the ideas or hijack the xeno from Alien to make a Moccery to the Aliens Xeno. Thus he could explain how the Xeno in Alien and thus Aliens came to be, but have the film concentrate on the Space Jockey and the Organisms or Bio Former that eventually leads to the creation of the Xeno and also the other Organisms in this movie that can be explored in a different movie. Thus how Dinosaurs evolved into Birds could be the Xeno which is covered in Alien etc so no need to do another movie about Birds just show how and where they came from, while also showing the Dinosaur to also evolve into Reptiles which leaves a new area and franchise that can be explored as in Reptiles. Thus after this movie... any seqeul i dont think will cover the Space Jockey, Derelict again as per see. It could be the Pilot was the last of his kind. Any Sequel would go down the route of what the Company does with the information, or Bio Former found on the planet or indeed the Squid Organism if this is not what creates the Xeno. There are so many posibilities, that they only need to show/solve the Alien link and then never have to go back or touch upon that again unless they make a Alien 5.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Necrofan

MemberOvomorphApr-13-2012 11:56 AM
I keep going back to Giger's original paintings and drawings that spawned the idea for a screenplay in the first place, in NecromonV...

Spartacus

MemberOvomorphApr-13-2012 11:59 AM
"A Perfect Killing Machine", "All This Thing Does, is Kill, And Make Little Xenomorphs" [b]~Spoken Like Matt Hooper in Jaws![/b] [img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v234/LT.HIGHTIMES/1a1ahooper.jpg[/img]

BigDave

MemberDeaconApr-13-2012 12:01 PM
@Necrofan Thats the point and what i was getting at. Ridley may have had his own ideas for how he wanted the Alien to Evolve, may had wanted to use some of the orginal script and may have wanted it to be based on the delete scene. But the movie came out without that scene, without the stuff missing from the Orginal Script. Cameron came along and did his own thing and from that a LEGEND was born and the most iconic Alien in movies was cemented in History. Ridley can use this movie, to create a new Organism that develops and evolves the way he would have orginally wanted Alien to have carried on, without doing any harm to Alien/Aliens. All he has to do is give some slight closure on the how, what, when, why and where of the Derelict, Space Jockey, Eggs on LV426 and Alien. And he can close the door on that. And explore other ideas that most of this movie will be based on.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Gavin

MemberTrilobiteApr-13-2012 12:16 PM
Contrary to common belief, Ridley, Dan and Giger are all fans of the Queen Alien.

Ghost Solitare

MemberOvomorphApr-13-2012 12:24 PM
I find both viral DNA recoding, and embryonic reproduction equally hideous in contemplation in the context of the Alien lifecycle. Each has it's own unique and sinister quality. One involves a much further along mechanism for results, but both would obtain the same grisly ends. As Ridley is at the helm of this film. It represents an evolution in his ideals, and the mythology of ALIEN. In the back of my mind I always wanted to know if the Nostromo's Xenomorph was a midpoint in the ultimate evolution of yet an organism we hadn't seen. As it was the first Alien film, discounting the films that followed it and based on ONLY what you saw in Alien, I had no idea what Dallas and Brett were going to morph into. I had always thought that using that much raw material and the available metabolism of the host, you have the basis of the next step in the lifecycle of a rapidly evolving organism. Now before you argue, consider that Prometheus is occurring in a UNIVERSE that exists before Alien. They know absolutely none of the CANON. Ridley is going to show the events leading up to Alien. This film deals with living Engineers, or at least the mechanisms that they use to synthecise their ideals. Imagine what we'll see, faced with a technology that tantalizes in it's possibilities, while being unimaginably LETHAL in it's execution.

ubik333

MemberOvomorphApr-13-2012 12:56 PM
While I like Cameron's takes in Aliens with the introdution of the Queen, in my opinion it diminished the nature of the creature from the first film. By definition, 'Alien' means differing in nature to point of incompatibility, so it should not (in my view) share any characteristics of animal biological reproduction and Drawinian procreation process as understood in Earth's animal kingdom. Hence, why I love the idea created by Dan O'Bannon, Ron Shusett and Giger. They fleshed out a more nightmarish creature and world that would otherwise become just another B-Movie monster. At its core Alien (the film) is supposed to terrify you - and in 1979, many people pissed in their pant while watching in a dark theatre. Considering that there were no internet, no story leaks, no marketing of the kind you get today, and most importantly no film to compare with, so many people went in completely clueless and I saw a lot of them were frazzled with nerves when exiting the theatre. LOL.

Alien DNA

MemberOvomorphApr-13-2012 1:26 PM
Has anyone considered that there may not be a cycle, as in you don't need a queen to end up back at the queen again in a cycle in order for the xeno to survive. Don't get me wrong, I love Aliens and the Queen too, but the pic of Gigers life cycle isn't exactly full circle and doesn't end up back at the egg. However, perhaps what we might see could be these new organisms from the urns (possibly) that start off small and perpetually evolve to survive by whatever means necessary through different hosts, queens for mass egg production, egg morphing etc. Which could come to the point of the xenos that we see in Alien and Aliens as to where we could be seeing the further progression of the original organism. This could also explain all the different additions to the process of their procreation that we've seen in all the movies including the Predalien in AVP if they wanted to keep that canon. Just a thought.

db

MemberOvomorphApr-13-2012 1:48 PM
There seems to be 2 fundamental schools of thought in this thread: 1. Film Canon 2. Story Elements Back in the day, when a movie played in a theater and everyone saw the same thing, things were much more simple. Everyone had the same story to work from. Once studios/director's began releasing alternative versions of films on VHS/DVD, everything changed... canon "changed"... as more information was released. Think of it like science. Most science is in a constant state of flux. Our theories are only as good as the evidence that supports them. Once new evidence is discovered, theories are forced to adapt, change significantly, or vaporize completely (mass extinction, etc.) But, accepted laws of science can survive (gravity, etc.) Another analogy is the "reader of the book" vs. "the viewer of the film". We all accept that a film adaption of a story is going to be significantly different than the written word. We seem to have little or no trouble with this concept, yet when it comes to accepting different versions of a film we tend to become either confused or territorial. If we approach this challenge logically, we would probably say: "That which came first, is canon." (Meaning ALIEN from 1979). In it, Ridley Scott made the decision to show no cocooning/transforming egg scenes. In 1986, James Cameron was within his rights to create a queen to lay them, therefore justifying their existence. Remember, your average movie go-er, didn't know about those deleted scenes. Does that make the queen canon? Yes... except for those nagging deleted egg scenes added to the original ALIEN and then later, accepted as canon. So, both are canon? Yes. If the ALIEN is truly a superior life form, why wouldn't it ensure its continued existence with more than one way to reproduce? Snork is correct. (Something has to lay/make the damn eggs, right?) If a drone is all there is... it can create a royal egg by manipulating the DNA directly from a victim species. Once the royal facehugger (A3 canon?) hatches, it then needs another cocooned victim to play host to the eventual queen. I believe there is a raised mural we've already seen in Prometheus that looks like a xeno. Can you interpret it as having the unmistakable frill of a queen above/around it? Is this Scott giving a nod to his old friend Cameron? If so, it truly is canon now. PS. Which came first, the chicken or the egg? Definitive answer: the egg. Dinosaurs laid eggs long before dinosaurs evolved into chickens!

darthmongo

MemberOvomorphApr-13-2012 2:28 PM
Everyone talks about the original Alien lifecycle as DNA recoding/morphing of the host to turn them into eggs/facehuggers. I always thought of it as more of a fungus that used the victim as "food" to grow and become the egg, from which the facehugger developed inside. I also never bought into the whole "the alien takes on the characteristics of the host" part of the lifecycle, either (brought up in Alien 3 with the dog or cow, depending on which version you watch). The host is simply used as an incubator - that's all. All egg depositing and fertilization is done by the facehugger. There is no "assimilation of DNA characteristics". I seem to remember something from the Alien novel where Ash is talking about how the alien used Kane as a host similar to how some wasps use spiders on Earth. Can't remember exactly how he phrased it (don't recall the line in the movie at all, either), but I was just trying to Google it and found this article that kind of explains it and made me wonder if this behavior will be brought into play with Prometheus. [url=http://2012forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=637]Parasitic Wasp and Alien Larva[/url]

Alien DNA

MemberOvomorphApr-13-2012 2:47 PM
Alien 3 is canon yes? So then you have a dog/ox host and an alien who clearly took on the characteristics of it's host. In Alien after Brett dies/is abducted Parker goes on about how big the Alien is now, "like a human" I believe he says, to which Ash comments "Kane's Son", which isn't exactly the same as above but would at the very least imply taking on host attributes. As far as Dallas being a host for the Brett egg, why would he ask to be killed if he was simply a host and not impregnated with a chestburster yet. Newt was to be a host and was saved at the last minute, completely coherent and not in the same state that Ripley found Dallas. Wouldn't this imply that something else was going on with him?

ubik333

MemberOvomorphApr-13-2012 4:42 PM
My problem with Cameron's Aliens Queen is that it made the creature too "normal", almost too close to Earth animal in characteristics especially with regards to its procreation drive. This just made Alien a completely different kind of monster from the one that Scott & co., created in 1979 - in that period of time I knew enough biology to appreciate the film-makers' creativity. In Earth's evolutionary history the dominant lifeform which lend to complexity is usllay multi-celluar (eukaryote) while the single-cell (archaea) which probably shared common ancestors with eukaryote, went on a separate evolutionary path and they could be found in places like hot springs and deep oceans. Now, considering if with right conditions archaea could have developed complexity, it would reproduce asexually (fission) instead of the commonly known meiosis (cell division) and a complex, large archaea-based creature would probably be "alien" in Earthly term. Giger's alien life-cycle is a bit like that, at least in my mind.
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